Confronting Collapse | Vanessa Machado de Oliveira
May 8, 2025
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Vanessa Machado de Oliveira, author of 'Hospicing Modernity' and 'Outgrowing Modernity', discusses how modern narratives can hinder our relationship with nature and lead to societal collapse. She emphasizes the need for a new story that fosters community, empathy, and emotional connection. The conversation explores the profound impacts of colonialism on indigenous communities and advocates for deeper engagement with the land. Vanessa also highlights the importance of amplifying diverse voices to effectively navigate the intertwined social and environmental crises we face.
The need for a new narrative emphasizes re-engineering societal relationships and recognizing the interconnectedness of humanity and nature.
Addressing the limitations of dividing narratives is crucial for fostering collaboration and unity in our increasingly uncertain world.
Engaging with our physical selves deepens our understanding of ecological systems, enhancing our capacity for compassionate responses to crises.
Deep dives
The Politics of Difference
Difference has historically played a critical role in identity politics, but it can also serve as a mechanism of separation. When the politics of difference is co-opted by commercial interests, it often exacerbates divisions among communities rather than unifying them. The podcast highlights how this is particularly evident in times of economic instability, suggesting that political discourse must evolve to prioritize collaboration over competition. Recognizing the limitations of divisive narratives is essential as we seek to navigate an increasingly uncertain world.
The Crisis of Modernity
The ongoing crises can be attributed to an outdated narrative that assumes humanity is separate from nature. This worldview has driven unsustainable practices, leading to environmental degradation and social injustices. The podcast describes how many demographics, previously insulated from these crises, are now feeling the repercussions as the protective buffers erode. Acknowledging that we live on a finite planet challenges the premise of perpetual growth and demands a reevaluation of our relationship with the earth and each other.
Storytelling Beyond Separation
Storytelling is highlighted as a powerful tool, but the podcast warns against viewing it as a panacea for systemic issues. It emphasizes the importance of linking our stories to our material realities and how these narratives shape our interactions with the environment. The need for a shift from a subject-object relationship to one of interconnectedness is critical for fostering genuine understanding and resilience. By engaging with our stories through the lens of subject-subject relationships, we can foster deeper connections that inspire collective action.
Preparing for Future Challenges
The discussion calls for preparedness amidst uncertainty, emphasizing the importance of recognizing various possible futures. By contemplating scenarios ranging from stability to complete destabilization, individuals can better navigate emotional responses and coordinate actions when crises arise. The practice of acknowledging fears, potential outcomes, and likely emotional reactions is framed as crucial for effective response strategies. Engaging with these challenges proactively can mitigate panic and promote collaborative problem-solving instead of self-destructive tendencies.
The Shift Towards Embodiment
Emphasizing the role of embodiment, the conversation turns to the necessity of connecting with our physical selves in our quest for knowledge. The podcast suggests that understanding our place within a complex ecological system requires more than intellectual awareness; it necessitates a sensory experience and emotional engagement with our environment. This deep connection allows for a richer understanding of our interconnectedness and enhances our capacity to respond to crises compassionately. Recognizing our body as a site of knowledge can lead to a more profound transformation and collective resilience.
We also need to do the hard work of re-engineering our societies, re-imagining our relationships, and remembering our bodies. Vanessa Machado de Oliveira, author of Hospicing Modernity, start our conversation right there, teasing apart the comforting notion that the hard work is just a language problem. Yes, we need a new story. And what else? And where do stories come from? And how are we wired to reject uncomfortable stories? And how do we make the uncomfortable possible? And which of our traditional strategies are getting in the way of the future?
Vanessa is celebrated for her work on modernity, and providing the tools to confront its collapse by reframing it as palliative care. Her new book, Outgrowing Modernity, develops more tools for how to nurse the possible futures emerging on our horizon. We harness these tools and metaphors to journey on a conversation of enquiry rather than conclusion, laughing with the notion that there is a single answer to any of this. This is a probing, thoughtful and curious conversation in which Vanessa and I think out loud together about what to do at the end of the world.
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