Gerry McGovern: The Environmental Impacts of AI – Episode 23

Gerry McGovern As we navigate our paperless offices and admire our sleek compact computing devices, it can be hard to imagine the impact that our digital experiences are having on our communities and the planet. Gerry McGovern studies the environmental impact of the digital industry. He has uncovered an alarming story of unsustainable growth, toxic side effects, and human misery, which he shares in his book, World Wide Waste. We talked about: how he became an environmental activist focused on the impacts of digital the phenomenal pace of growth of digital infrastructure the impact on local communities of the big data centers that house cloud infrastructure how the compute-intensive nature of AI exacerbates his observation of the long-standing lack of transparency in the AI industry the "snake oil sales" aspects of AI the troubling use of "forever chemicals" by the semiconductor industry the material impact of computer chip manufacturing how human over-consumption and the environmental impacts of AI overlap his advice for actions you can take to mitigate your personal impact: slow down and use your brain more think local - local foods, local computer storage, etc. prefer text over images and other high-bandwidth communications Gerry's bio Gerry’s latest book, World Wide Waste, examines the impact data waste and e-waste are having on the environment and what to do about it. Gerry also developed Top Tasks, a research method used by hundreds of organizations to help identify what truly matters. Connect with Gerry online Mastodon LinkedIn GerryMcGovern.com Video Here’s the video version of our conversation: https://youtu.be/W5-BMTTEUik Podcast intro transcript This is the Content and AI podcast, episode number 23. It's easy to think of digital media and experiences - including our new AI explorations - as ethereal things that magically traverse the computing cloud to enlighten and entertain us. Gerry McGovern is here to remind you that that's far from the case, that "digital is physical." The data centers that power cloud computing are lapping up water and consuming electricity at an alarming pace, and the arrival of AI is accelerating these troubling patterns of overconsumption. Interview transcript Larry: Hi, everyone. Welcome to episode number 23 of the Content + AI podcast. I am really delighted today to welcome to the show Gerry McGovern. Gerry is the author of the book The World Wide Waste: How Digital is Killing the Planet and What to Do About It. He's also probably better known ... and I originally met him almost 15, 20 years ago when he was talking about customer care words, and subsequently out of that arose, I think, his work on top task methodology. So anyhow, Gerry's a well-established figure in the discipline, has a lot of important stuff to tell us about the environmental costs of AI. But welcome, Gerry. Tell the folks a little bit more about what you're up to these days. Gerry: Thank you, Larry. It's lovely to be speaking to you again. I suppose what I'm up to mainly is ... In a sense, I never thought it would happen, but I've become a type of environmental activist focused on the impacts of digital and how to use digital in a better way, in a less damaging way. I don't think digital can be green in any sense, but I think it can be used to help more our environment and at least to reduce the damage it causes to our environment. So, that's the main stuff I'm focused on. Larry: Yeah. Well, I got to say, I love the idea that you're an environmental activist now, because we need plenty of that. But one of the things about your work that I think has really driven home the point to me that we think of digital as this ephemeral thing happening out there in the ether. It's like no consequence. You can just throw stuff in a hard drive or share something. But this is still connected to the physical world, right? Gerry: