Episode 2317: Is Trump's America now an Oligarchy?
Jan 25, 2025
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Keith Teare, founder of SignalRank Corporation and tech veteran, argues against labeling tech leaders like Musk and Zuckerberg as oligarchs. He believes they are competing businessmen responding to regulation rather than a unified power group. The discussion also examines the influence of these tech titans on politics, the implications of AI development, and the evolution of economic ideals under Trump. Teare highlights the challenges for the Democratic Party amidst shifting public sentiments and contemplates Bitcoin's potential as a financial asset compared to gold.
The podcast debates whether technologists like Musk and Zuckerberg should be labeled oligarchs, emphasizing their competitive nature rather than unified control.
Concerns about AI advancements and their potential to widen the wealth gap prompt discussions on societal support systems like universal basic income.
Deep dives
The Definition and Implications of Oligarchy
The podcast discusses the misconception surrounding the term 'oligarch' as it relates to prominent figures in technology like Bezos, Musk, and Zuckerberg. The argument posits that labeling these individuals as oligarchs stems from ideological frustration rather than a factual analysis of their influence or control over political processes. Rather than existing as a unified group managing collective interests, these technologists often have conflicting agendas, illustrating that their power is not synonymous with governmental control. This distinction emphasizes the importance of recognizing the competitive nature of these leaders rather than categorizing them under a term that implies monopolistic governance.
The Conflict Between Technology and Regulation
The conversation reveals a growing tension between wealthy technology leaders and the regulatory landscape shaped by the Biden administration and figures like Lena Khan. Many tech moguls perceive government intervention as an attack on innovation and personal freedoms, leading to feelings of being marginalized or bullied by regulatory measures. This adversarial dynamic has prompted these technologists to seek greater influence and involvement in shaping policy, aiming to protect and promote their economic interests. The podcast suggests that the inherent competitiveness among these figures showcases their desire not for governance, but for strategic maneuvering in the marketplace.
The Importance of American Innovation
There's a strong emphasis on the idea of 'American dynamism' as a driving force for innovation and economic growth. Key figures like Musk, Zuckerberg, and others are seen as pivotal in not only contributing to the technological landscape but also as champions of a nationalistic approach to innovation amid global competition. Their collective goals, while varied, all share a common thread: the belief that a robust American economy contributes positively to both national and global contexts. This perspective frames these leaders not as oligarchs, but as contributors to the national interest, fostering an environment where innovation can thrive.
Future Considerations on AI and Society
The discussion transitions into the implications that advancements in artificial intelligence (AI) might have on the social contract and economic landscape. As AI technology progresses, there is concern that the wealth gap may widen, necessitating a reevaluation of societal support systems like universal basic income. Leaders like Sam Altman advocate for proactive measures to ensure that economic benefits from AI advancements are distributed equitably throughout society. This dialogue highlights a critical juncture where economic realities and technological progress must intersect responsibly to avoid deepening class divides.
In Keith Teare’s That Was the Week newsletter for this week, he categorically asserts that there is no oligarchy in Trump’s America. Instead there are “just technologists with a passion for change and, of course, self-interest”. But I’m not so sure. So in this issue of our weekly show, Keith and I debate the nature of tech power in America. Keith argues argues against characterizing tech leaders like Musk, Zuckerberg, and Altman as oligarchs, claiming they're simply competing businessmen seeking influence rather than a unified controlling group. He views their alignment with Trump as a reaction to what he sees as over-regulation by the Biden administration. But regardless of whether tech leaders agree on everything, I argue, their enormous wealth and influence on what I call MAGA’s “national capitalism” effectively makes them an oligarchy. Indeed, they are, I think, a textbook example of Aristotle’s definition of “oligarchy” which he defined as "rule by the rich”.
Keith Teare is the founder and CEO of SignalRank Corporation. Previously, he was executive chairman at Accelerated Digital Ventures Ltd., a U.K.-based global investment company focused on startups at all stages. Teare studied at the University of Kent and is the author of “The Easy Net Book” and “Under Siege.” He writes regularly for TechCrunch and publishes the “That Was The Week” newsletter.
Named as one of the "100 most connected men" by GQ magazine, Andrew Keen is amongst the world's best known broadcasters and commentators. In addition to presenting KEEN ON, he is the host of the long-running How To Fix Democracy show. He is also the author of four prescient books about digital technology: CULT OF THE AMATEUR, DIGITAL VERTIGO, THE INTERNET IS NOT THE ANSWER and HOW TO FIX THE FUTURE. Andrew lives in San Francisco, is married to Cassandra Knight, Google's VP of Litigation & Discovery, and has two grown children.
This is a public episode. If you’d like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit keenon.substack.com/subscribe
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