In which John Heilemann talks with #NeverTrump Republican political strategist Mike Murphy, co-director of the USC Center for the Political Future, co-host of the Hacks on Tap podcast, and NBC News political analyst. Heilemann and Murphy discuss the two biggest stories in politics right now — the pending retirement of Supreme Court Justice Stephen Breyer and the escalating crisis around Russia's aggression toward Ukraine — and the opportunities and challenges each present for President Biden and his beleaguered administration; the outlook for Democrats and Republicans in the November midterm elections; whether Trump really plans to seek his party's presidential nomination in 2024, and the implications if he does ... or doesn't. Murphy also reminisces about his storied career as a Svengali to the type of conservative candidates (John McCain, Jeb Bush, Mitt Romney, Arnold Schwarzenegger) for whom today's GOP has vanishingly little use.
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