The State Of Crypto Derivatives With Shiliang Tang and Josh Lim

Jun 16, 2025

Join Josh Lim, Co-founder of Arbelos and Head of Strategy at FalconX, and Shiliang Tang, Co-founder of Arbelos and Head of Trading at FalconX, as they dive into the intriguing world of crypto derivatives. They discuss the significant lessons learned from the chaotic 2022 crypto market and the impact of decentralized finance on market dynamics. Discover their insights on navigating risk and regulatory challenges, the evolving role of Bitcoin, and emerging investment strategies in a rapidly changing landscape.

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ANECDOTE

Founders' Journey Through 2022 Chaos

Josh Lim and Shiliang Tang experienced the 2022 crypto chaos firsthand from sell side and buy side perspectives.
They responded by founding Arbalos to improve market transparency and counterparty trust in derivatives.

INSIGHT

Crypto Market: One Big Trade

Crypto remains "one big trade" driven by retail capital flow and rotations across L1s and assets.
Focus now is on durable assets with fundamental value, leading to Bitcoin dominance increase and altcoins' decline.

ADVICE

Manage Crypto Derivatives Intelligently

Manage various crypto derivatives like options, perps, swaps intelligently across different instruments.
Use embedded optionality in tokens and AMMs to form complex derivative strategies for better trading.

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This week, Jason is joined by Shiliang and Josh to discuss derivatives, perps, trade ideas, the state of the overall market and Public Crypto Vehicles’ impact on the market.

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Chapters:

(00:00) Intro

(02:47) Arbelos Founding Story

(09:25) Still One Big Trade?

(12:14) Ads (Skale)

(13:07) Derivatives Market Explained

(18:26) Perps Explained

(20:53) Venture & Liquid Funds

(23:41) Inefficiencies In Crypto Market

(24:56) State Of The Market

(29:49) Impact Of Liquidity Drains

(32:54) Ads (Skale)

(33:46) Public Crypto Vehicles + Risks

(48:27) Ads (Falcon x,LEDN)

(50:15) Does The Cycle Still Exist?

(51:38) Deribit Deal

(57:38) Bitcoin ETFs

(01:03:34) Hyperliquid

(01:07:42) Trade Ideas

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Disclaimer: Nothing said on Empire is a recommendation to buy or sell securities or tokens. This podcast is for informational purposes only, and any views expressed by anyone on the show are solely our opinions, not financial advice. Santiago, Jason, and our guests may hold positions in the companies, funds, or projects discussed.