Could Your Teen Be at Risk of a Religious Cult? Red Flags & How to Protect Them—Insights from a Cult Survivorr

Jun 18, 2024

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In this powerful episode, Dr. Cam is joined by Sarah Bruno-Patrey to discuss the far-reaching effects of religious trauma on teens and how parents can help them navigate these challenges. Sarah shares her personal story of growing up within a religious youth program and the healing journey she experienced. If your teen is grappling with religious trauma or a crisis of faith, this episode will provide you with the tools to better understand and support them through these tough times. It’s a must-listen for parents looking to create an open, supportive environment for their teens, especially when faith and identity are involved.

WHAT YOU'LL LEARN IN THIS EPISODE

How religious trauma impacts teens and how it can lead to feelings of isolation and shame
Practical ways to help your teen through a crisis of faith
How to recognize unhealthy religious experiences and protect your teen’s mental health
The importance of open communication, mentorship, and empowering your teen to make their own decisions about faith

5 KEY TAKEAWAYS FOR PARENTS OF TEENS

Religious trauma can leave teens feeling emotionally isolated, and it’s crucial to recognize the signs early to offer support.
Open communication is essential for helping your teen heal from religious trauma—letting them express their feelings is key.
Supporting your teen through a crisis of faith is about being present, not imposing beliefs, and offering a safe space.
Parents should focus on being mentors, helping teens navigate spiritual and emotional challenges without pressure.
Offering your teen options and autonomy during this process can help them find their own path to healing and self-discovery.

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EPISODE CHAPTERS
00:00 – The Impact of Religious Trauma on Teens
03:34 – Recognizing Unhealthy Experiences in Religious Programs

CONNECT WITH OUR GUEST: Sarah Bruno-Patrey

TikTok: @sarahbrunopatrey

CONNECT WITH YOUR HOST: Dr. Cam Caswell

FULL TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Cam

As parents, we want nothing more than our teens to find their path in life. For many, religion offers a sense of belonging and purpose. But what happens when it leaves our teens feeling isolated, ashamed, or questioning everything they believe? Today, I'm joined by Sarah Bruno -Patri to talk about the impact of religious trauma on teens and what parents can do to support them. But before we dive in, I want to share that Sarah and I have known each other for years, and actually through church but I only recently heard about her experiences with this particular religious program, actually through TikTok, and talked to her and asked her if she would jump on, because I feel like it's really important for us parents to be aware of what's going on. So Sarah, welcome to the show. Thank you. So let's talk about, first of all, what was your experience because you did this as a teenager. So what was kind of the experience or the motive to go into this particular program and what was that program?

Sarah Bruno-Patrey (00:59.19)

Yeah, so I grew up obviously in the church and it was an amazing, beautiful experience. And I knew after I graduated high school that college was not like in the cards for me, at least immediately. And so my parents and I decided that I could take a gap year and they would foot the bill and I can just go find a program and go do that as long as I had a plan. And so I had been exposed to this organization called Youth with a Mission (https://ywam.org/> when I was actually in high school, I went with a couple of classmates to Kona, Hawaii, two summers in a row. And so I kind of had a sense of what this organization was. I knew that it wasn't exactly how I had grown up in the church. It was a little bit different with its theology and things like that. And I was like, it's okay, I'll put those things aside. And I decided to go to Australia. So I went to literally the farthest place that I could go from Washington DC. If you drilled a hole through the earth, it would come out in Perth, Australia, or at least around there. And I just wanted to get out of our town. And so that's where I went. And I was there for six months. I spent three months of it in Perth, Australia and three months of it in Asia.

Dr. Cam (02:16.742)

At that time, and I know through the teen years, I know church paid a big and religion played a big part in your life. What kind of role was that playing for you or what kind of place was that filling for you?

Sarah Bruno-Patrey (02:31.094)

It was just like the big sense of community for me. I feel like going through school, like I had different friend groups, but then once I really found my community in my church and like other youth ministry organizations, it was like, these are my people. I had the support that I needed as a teenager and I had like the adults around me that I needed as a teenager because teenagers need a lot of adults. And so that was just like, I spent all my time with my religious community. And it was a great thing up until that point. It was like an amazing part of my life. So.

Dr. Cam (03:06.278)

That's what's really clear about this. We're not saying like religious groups are bad, you know, and we did. I mean, I was one of your youth leaders and it was an amazing experience. And we were able to really just connect and talk to kids on a lot deeper level. So then it went to this next phase. And I think one of the things the question is, how do we know when it is a healthy experience and when it becomes a toxic experience?

Tell us a little bit about your experience there and when did you actually realize it might not be the healthiest experience for you.

Sarah Bruno-Patrey (03:43.062)

Yeah, so like I said before, I kind of knew what I was getting into wasn't exactly like how I had been raised in the church. I knew that things would be a little bit different. But like for some reference of it, it's a six month initially to like join this organization. You have to do a six month program. The first three months that I was in Australia was the discipleship training school part of it. So it was like the lecture phase is what they called it. And so that was you're in a classroom all week.

And then you did the outreach, which was like the mission part. And it was pretty early on into it that I realized that this isn't, not only did I not like align with this in its theology, the things that I could kind of put aside, but just in like most aspects, it just wasn't a healthy organization. It was pretty like off the bat, a lot of comments about my faith and my spirituality growing up where I grew up that I didn't like see eye to eye was a lot bigger of a deal. And every week we had a topic and every Friday they called it like application Friday. So the first week was prayer. So we learned about prayer and then Friday we did something involving prayer like evangelism for example, we did Monday through Thursday we learned about evangelism on Friday we went out and evangelized. I think the big thing that sent sirens off in my head was the third week we did forgiveness and repentance. Where, you know, Monday through Thursday, we learned about sin and repentance and things that are biblical and good, like, you know, repenting from your sins, turning the other direction, walking away from it completely, things that are pretty standard. But then on Friday, when we had our application, we had to write a list of our sins down.

Dr. Cam (05:08.774)

Red flags, yes.

Sarah Bruno-Patrey (05:38.134)

Things that spanned from yoga, which I don't believe is a sin. I have never believed it was a sin. I remember like going on the phone with my pastor from home. I was like, is yoga really a sin? And he's like, no, that's a little ridiculous. Playing Dungeons and Dragons, things like that. Yeah, all the way to like sexual sin, things like that. We had to write a list and then on Friday morning, we started in the morning, we had to sit next to a speaker.

Dr. Cam (05:41.446)

Yoga! My goodness.

Sarah Bruno-Patrey (06:05.11)

We didn't really know in a classroom full of people that we've only known for a few weeks. And we actually combined with another classroom, so complete strangers at that point. And we had to sit up there, read our lists of sins, and then repent for it, ask for forgiveness from God. Again, things that are all biblical, if they're done correctly. So, you know, confessing to a friend, somebody you trust would be a very, like, good practice. But this was kind of distorted and sitting up there telling it to a group of people you didn't know, you didn't have like that relational currency with. Having to forgive for just crazy things and it lasted for 14 hours. We didn't, yeah, we didn't have, we missed our meals, everything. So that was when I was like, I'm not gonna just like sit here and do everything that they tell me to do. I am going to question some things and yeah, big red flags. they didn't like that. I didn't even want to participate in that particular activity. And I was kind of like getting the death stare from the leader at the time. He was standing right next to the door so he couldn't even like walk out. It's just a lot of very strategic things like that to kind of wear you down until you actually get up there and do it. And.

Dr. Cam (07:06.918)

How did that go over when you started to question things? No?

Sarah Bruno-Patrey (07:30.454)

the entire program I was questioning things and I was saying things that I believed about like even just topics like women in ministry, things like that. And it was always not reprimanded, like I would get in trouble, but it was definitely like, you need to just stop, like keep your mouth shut. Like this isn't your place, which I like to question things. So that is the question that I get a lot. And I think it's hard for people who look in from an outside perspective to understand why somebody would stay. But first of all, I was a teenager. I had built this up in my head of like, this is my gap year. I'm in Australia. I have this new sense of independence I didn't have at home. Not that my parents were strict looking back on it. Of course, I thought that they were the most strict people in the entire world. My parents had spent all this money, like I think like 10 grand for me to be there. I knew I could go home if I wanted to. My parents had the financial ability to get me home. I knew that, like that was just an option, but it also wasn't. They kind of made it seem like, well, everybody at home has moved on. You don't have a community at home anyways. I had friends there that couldn't get home financially for whatever reasons. I felt like I would be leaving them in the dust if I left. I also have a big sense of pride of like, I don't want to admit that this didn't go the way that I was expecting it to, the way that I had convinced my parents it would go. I think that's a hard lesson for any teenager to learn is to just swallow your pride if it means to keep yourself safe and, you know, but didn't do that. So, mm -hmm.

Dr. Cam (09:12.902)

You stayed and then did it ever, did you ever kind of change your idea about it or kind of warm up to what that experience was?

Sarah Bruno-Patrey (09:24.182)

Yes, it's like, it's a really weird, like, experience being there because it does become your entire world. And I knew that I wasn't seeing eye to eye with this organization as a whole. It had its issues, but these were like my friends now, my people. And I just kind of at some point was like, this is it. Like this is, I don't want to go to college still. Everybody at home. They've been telling that everybody at home has moved on they don't there will be nobody at home for me and we did have fun like there were some really fun parts and so it was just a lot of like you have tunnel vision while you're there and you're being love -bombed but also like Not you're also being worn down

Dr. Cam (10:14.054)

Sounds like a little bit of gaslighting too maybe.

Sarah Bruno-Patrey (10:17.174)

There's a lot of gaslighting, yeah. I would definitely agree with that.

Dr. Cam (10:21.702)

When you're talking to your parents about it, how are you selling what's going on down there?

Sarah Bruno-Patrey (10:28.758)

So my parents and I had kind of like a complicated relationship before I had left. We didn't have like a huge like, we weren't super close in the way that I could be like, my gosh, like this is how I'm feeling. It was mostly like, this is what we're doing. And like, here's my friend that I've made. Like we're having fun. And then I think once I went on outreach was where I realized that my parents weren't the enemy. And like I did need them more than I thought I did, because I had some pretty bad experiences while I was not only in Australia, which is like America just far away, but I was in rural parts of Nepal and Indonesia. And like there were instances where I was like, I really wish I had my mom right now. And we didn't have Wi -Fi. We didn't have, I went like weeks without being able to talk to them. And so we just didn't have a huge like open line of communication. Even when I was in Australia, it was a 13 hour time difference. So communicating was tough as it was, but.

Dr. Cam (11:31.078)

So they had you isolated in there. And so you, when you, so then you came, you did come home after six months. And how was that transition?

Sarah Bruno-Patrey (11:39.03)

Mm -hmm. It was really hard. They don't prepare you to come home. And I think that that is a little strategic. It was interesting seeing that, like, yeah, my friends, obviously their life doesn't stop while they're back at home. You know, a lot of them are still in high school. And then just coming in, being like the outsider all of a sudden, it kind of like reinforced, I need to go back. I need to go where people are familiar.

And so there was no preparation on either end. I don't think my parents knew that they would have to prepare me. I think it was just like, you're home, like going to college or something. Yeah, exactly. So it was tough. And then my community just in general kind of fell apart. And then that's when like I had a mentor be like, you should really just give college a shot, just go. And that was nice because

Dr. Cam (12:19.462)

What's the difference?

Sarah Bruno-Patrey (12:37.814)

everybody's starting over in college. Nobody has that sense of community that I thought I was going to have when I came home or that was back in Australia.

Dr. Cam (12:46.726)

Were you able to share with that mentor what had been going on? I know you said you really weren't comfortable sharing with your parents at that time, but were you able to share with your mentor?

Sarah Bruno-Patrey (12:55.35)

So I had been in communication with him and his wife, probably more than my parents at that point while I was over there. So they were kind of clued in on a lot of stuff that was happening already. And they were very skeptical of the organization already because they had family members that were in it before. And so they kind of knew, and I think they were able to kind of redirect me a little bit better than my parents did because they had no experience with it.

And so it was a little bit easier to share that. But I think a lot of it I didn't realize was even that wrong until I went to college and I started talking to friends and sharing stories and even talking to friends that I had back in Australia when they moved home and we kind of like decompressed together and deconstructed like our experience. And we're like, wow, that was like in hindsight, hindsight's always 20, 20. That was not a good thing, that was not okay, it wasn't healthy. So being able to do that together was nice too.

Dr. Cam (14:01.926)

How do you think that's impacted you now? Now that you're like realizing this was not a great situation, how is that kind of feeding into how you're interacting with the world or just your thoughts of yourself right now even?

Sarah Bruno-Patrey (14:17.398)

Yeah, I think it's really easy to like look back and be like, my gosh, I was so stupid to like keep going to stay and like, you know, I have people, my TikTok comments being like, why didn't you lie? Why didn't you leave? Why didn't you do that X, Y, and Z? And I have to like give myself some grace because I was 18 years old. Like I was very young and just, yeah.

Dr. Cam (14:44.55)

I want to help parents understand because this is a specific situation, but it is, it relates to a lot of situations because we've got this sense of needing to find a place to belong. Right. And so that is enormously important for all humans, but particularly for a teenager, right. Finding that, sense of not having a voice because you are a teenager. Even though you're disagreeing, not feeling like you have that ability to stand up and also kind of not having the connection you needed at the time with your parents to be able to say, hey, we've got to change this. So you're kind of, there's kind of the sense of isolation. So how can parents or what can your parents do? Is there anything they could have done differently at that point or what could have helped at that point. And this is not blaming your parents at all, not even remotely, but I think this is more, again, 2020 hindsight, right? This is more telling parents, hey, here's some things to look out for or here's some things we can do now to hopefully prevent this from happening.

Sarah Bruno-Patrey (15:44.502)

My parents did, I feel like, all the right things. They reached out to multiple people that had been in the organization. We had dinner with a family that their son had been a part of it for a while. And I think one of the things in hindsight is we got a lot of the male perspective from being in that organization, which I think going in as an 18 -year -old female is a lot different than a 20 -year -old male, you know? So just making sure, like, first of all, that is seeing eye to eye. Also, I think one thing that we could have done better was pinpointing why I wanted to go. For me, it wasn't so much the religious aspect that was just more convenient. It was the traveling. I wanted to get out. I wanted to travel. I wanted to be away from home. I think something that parents can do when kids come to them saying, I want to be a missionary or I want to be specifically in this organization is to be like, well, why do you want to do that? Do you want to travel? If so, there are so many organizations that you're able to travel. Because my parents would have never let me just go backpack through Europe by myself. Like that's just not, but there's different organizations. There's different ways to do that. If it is something where you want to serve, you want to volunteer, there's plenty of organizations that also do that.

Dr. Cam (17:07.91)

That sounds scary.

Sarah Bruno-Patrey (17:22.358)

that are great and reputable and I have a whole list of them that aren't YWAM that I could... But if it is a religious thing, I think what is really important is to first recognize that serving locally in your local church or even going and interning at a church in a different state. Doing something that is serving your local community is going to be a lot more helpful to those communities than a white person going to Nepal and being like, Jesus is amazing. I think that, yeah, exactly. I think like, I mean, there's a lot of issues and the whole mission aspect of it too. But I think pinpointing exactly why your child, your teen wants to go and do a gap year, because college isn't for everyone right off the bat. And then finding different ways, having options and being like, of course you can't,

Dr. Cam (17:53.958)

We relate to you so well.

Sarah Bruno-Patrey (18:19.638)

At that point be like, you need to do this. I mean, you can, but if you want them to have the choice, you're like, here's your options, here's the pros and cons, and then go from there. Interview people, there's plenty of Facebook groups for different organizations. There's a lot that I'm in that are like survivors of YYM. So I think that that's probably a big red flag.

Dr. Cam (18:37.798)

Wow. Yeah, go research if there are a bunch of groups that are survivors of this, that might not be a good sign that that's the thing to do. When your mentor kind of talked you out of going back and going to school, what were some of the things that he said to you that parents might, because that's not an easy thing to do, especially if you've got that, like, I don't want to show that I was wrong.

Sarah Bruno-Patrey (18:42.55)

Exactly. Yeah.

Dr. Cam (19:07.014)

I want to be independent. I don't want to show that I made a bad choice, even though you had no idea. So what can parents do at that point to say, okay, it's okay, how do we move forward?

Sarah Bruno-Patrey (19:22.294)

Yeah, I think a big thing for me was college was very accessible and I know that that's not like the case for everybody. One of the points he made was like, well, you're not paying for it. Like just go, just try it. Like what's the worst that could happen? And just, he never made me feel like I made a wrong decision by going and that like what I did was wrong or that I should feel any type of shame about it. It was just like here's a different opportunity and like, what do you have to lose by at least trying? Like give it, he said, just give it a semester. It was like, I had a start and an end date of like giving this and I went into that college, like ready to prove him wrong and be like, I told you I don't like it. And like, this isn't for me. And the exact opposite is what happened, but having like just a different option. And I mean, I'm really stubborn. So even having just the challenge of like, give it a try, like what's the worst that could happen? So if you do go back, if you're just gonna go back six months later than you expected, what's the difference? Mm -hmm.

Dr. Cam (20:24.07)

Right, let's try something different. I think there's so many good points there because it's not about forcing you, it's not about shaming or pointing out what you did wrong. It is about going, okay, that was your choice, here's why you did it, let's try something else. And that end date, so it's like, let's just give it a try, a go. And it's not like you're stuck doing and committed to that. Because I think sometimes kids go, “If I try it, then I'm committed to it for how, four years. And now if I don't want to do it. So I like that that was kind of that approach. And how did your parents feel about that approach? I'm sure they were. Yeah. So the other thing is having mentors for your kid that you trust. absolutely. And the thing is, he had spent years building that relationship with you too. They were thrilled. They were so relieved. Well he was the only one that I would have listened to, honestly.

Dr. Cam (21:15.718)

That makes a big difference as well as having that opportunity and having other people around that you trust because parents aren't going to be the first person kids go to and for many of the same reasons you didn't is because you just don't want to show that you're wrong because you're trying to be independent. And that's a hard thing to do. What are some signs that parents might be able to look for that you think that their kids are in an unhealthy situation.

Sarah Bruno-Patrey (21:48.374)

Yeah, I think just like distance communication is a big thing. Like I said, like my parents and I weren't super close at this point. So like that wasn't probably wasn't the biggest red flag to them that I wasn't talking to them every day. But also just if everything seems like rainbow and sunshine, like maybe it is, but maybe it's not. And just like asking questions to not just like, like what have you been doing? But like, what have you been doing? And like, how did that not make you feel, because what teenager is going to love that question? But how is that experience for you? Asking about the relationships that they're making, their interactions with leadership, I think is a big thing too. I was having really awful interactions with leadership and not even to fault them because looking back on it, they were 21, 22, 23. I can't, yeah, exactly. And this has been their entire life too.

Dr. Cam (22:40.006)

Doing what they were told.

Sarah Bruno-Patrey (22:45.782)

But interactions with leadership and just like, how are you, you know, like how are they interacting with you? How are you interacting with them? How is that making you feel? Like, do you feel safe? There's a lot of times where I was like, we weren't even in a safe location, like to even live, which I think if my dad had seen where I was living, he would have been very upset.

Dr. Cam (23:10.406)

Was there anything they could have said or done to have forced you back?

Sarah Bruno-Patrey (23:16.086)

I don't know, honestly, that's a good question. Maybe if they had like physically come get me, or been like bribed me somehow with like, you know, you can, we can go on a trip to Europe, I don't know. But, mm -hmm.

Dr. Cam (23:22.182)

Then you might have resented it or still not come to that conclusion yourself that this wasn't a good situation. And so you would have still thought that was a good decision or a good break. So I think you going through, which is hard for parents to see, but you going through this and figuring this out seems to be what really got you through this. And you got through it.

Sarah Bruno-Patrey (23:38.23)

Exactly. I did. And it's been like a long time deconstructing all of it, but like I do think that I have like a better sense of self because of it. So it's a hard thing to like look back on too, because yeah, I don't think that there was much my parents could have done. I think that there are ways that I could have been supported when I got home a little bit better, but teenagers sometimes are just gonna have to figure things out by themselves. I was definitely that type of teenager. So. Yes.

Dr. Cam (24:27.078)

There's a lot of that type of teenager and it's very frustrating for parents, but I think it's really important to realize that our kids are going to make decisions. Some of them are going to really scare us and just stay supporting them because your parents did not say, forget it. That's the wrong thing. You're on your own. Like they stayed there. Finding that mentor that can help talk some sense into them is really big. Just staying there and supporting your kids. Because now your relationship with your parents, how is that relationship now? Yeah. Yeah.

Sarah Bruno-Patrey (25:03.894)

It's great. It's fantastic. And I still, I talk to my mom sometimes about like what had gone on. I think a lot of it, my husband also did the same program, which is how we met. We didn't meet while we're in the program. He did his in South Africa, like about a year later, but we were introduced to each other because of it. He had a much different experience than me. Again, I think the male experience is different. But having people and like, I don't know, jus finding people that you can talk to about it. That might not be your parents, but having parents support you and finding that too is really good.

Dr. Cam (25:40.038)

That's great. And I will attest, your mom's pretty awesome. So, she's pretty cool. So, I think that's a big thing too. Like, I can't imagine it wasn't that she did something wrong or you did anything wrong. It was just a situation where it seemed right in the moment and it turned out not so right. And you got through and I love that. So, that's really what I wanted to share with parents because I think it's just important for us to know because there's so much fear around what our kids are doing. And I think sometimes we gotta let them do it anyway, but being there and kind of having that support system there to help them through it is really good. Because I don't see how this could have been prevented.

Sarah Bruno-Patrey (26:26.39)

Yeah, no, I know, because I feel like we definitely did all the right things going into it. I think just, yeah, like reiterating to your team that home, like it's okay to come home if you need to. It's okay to stay if that's what you think you need to do, but like there's nothing wrong with saying, this isn't for me, I'm gonna come home, I'm gonna try something else. And I think that goes along with like having options I think maybe one thing that would have gotten me home was like, having the option to go do something else. Like, whether that was like a volunteer trip or just traveling or whatever. Just like having options and being like, it's okay, there's no need to feel shame about your experience or anything like that. We don't even have to talk about it immediately when you get home. Counseling is a great option, but just having that support while they're there, which might be the last thing that they want to hear in the moment, but it does probably get through to them a little bit more than you would think.

Dr. Cam (27:24.582)

That's great. Sarah, thank you for jumping on and sharing your story. I really appreciate it.

Sarah Bruno-Patrey (27:27.318)

Of course

ABOUT THE SHOW:

The Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam Podcast is your essential guide to navigating the complexities of adolescence with clarity and confidence. Hosted by Dr. Cam Caswell, an adolescent psychologist, the podcast provides practical strategies and expert insights to help you build a stronger relationship with your teen and support their emotional development. Whether you're an experienced parent or just starting your journey with teens, this podcast is packed with valuable information to help you thrive.

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