In this episode, we’re joined by Florian Flade, an investigative journalist for Germany’s public broadcaster WDR based in Berlin. In this conversation, Florian discusses the activities of Russian research ships that are suspected of espionage. He explains how these ships, while officially labeled as academic vessels, are equipped with advanced technology for intelligence gathering, mainly focusing on critical underwater infrastructure. The conversation delves into the geopolitical implications of these activities, the Russian government's official stance, and the role of Chinese ships in potential sabotage operations.

Additionally, the discussion highlights the legal challenges in addressing maritime espionage and the difficulties in investigating incidents at sea. Florian also discusses NATO's evolving strategies in response to Russian spy ships, particularly in the context of the Baltic Sea. He highlights the increasing urgency and coordination among NATO members, the challenges of hybrid warfare, and the implications for defence spending in Germany.

The discussion also touches on public perceptions of security threats and the historical context of espionage activities, culminating in a personal account of encountering spy ships.

Watch this episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/ojllHsImbNk

DW Documentary: “Putin’s Fleet”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Br3K93-z6PI

DW News: “What are dozens of Russian ships doing in European waters?”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7f7Nujs1_yY

HI Sutton
http://www.hisutton.com/

Marine Traffic
https://www.marinetraffic.com/

Global Fishing Watch
https://globalfishingwatch.org/map/index

Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/florianflade.bsky.social
Twitter: https://x.com/FlorianFlade
Blog: https://ojihad.wordpress.com/

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Secrets and Spies is produced by Films & Podcasts LTD.
Music by Andrew R. Bird