Strange Bedfellows: Ep 2 Sticky Situations w/Joe Hagan
Feb 2, 2023
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In this discussion with Joe Hagan, author of the Jann Wenner biography 'Sticky Fingers,' listeners are treated to candid insights on the complex dynamics between Paul McCartney, Yoko Ono, and the media. Hagan shares his experiences interviewing both icons and dives into their often fraught relationship, revealing how Wenner’s philosophy shaped public perception. They explore McCartney's image-building tactics, Yoko's attitude, and the media's obsession with The Beatles' legacy, offering a rich tapestry of rock history and personal storytelling.
The podcast highlights the struggle between Yoko Ono and Paul McCartney to shape their legacies in light of John Lennon's death.
Joe Hagan provides unique insights from his interviews with Ono and McCartney, revealing personal beliefs that drive their public personas.
The fraught relationship between Paul McCartney and Jann Wenner illustrates mutual distrust influenced by media portrayal of their legacies.
The emotional complexities and historical grievances among the Beatles continue to influence their identities and interactions within celebrity culture.
Deep dives
The Battle for Legacy
The podcast discusses the ongoing struggle between Yoko Ono and Paul McCartney over their legacies following John Lennon's death. Both figures are portrayed as engaged in a complex media war, with each trying to shape the narrative around Lennon’s life and work. The conversation highlights how Ono and Jan Wenner collaborated in the 1980s to propagate John's posthumous image, and how Paul's attempts to build his own legacy often collided with theirs. This rivalry adds layers to the already complicated Beatles mythos, illustrating how the past continues to shape contemporary perceptions of these artists.
Insights from Joe Hagan
Author Joe Hagan shares his unique perspective, having interviewed both Ono and McCartney, which provides a rare insider view of their relationships. He recounts how both artists viewed the media differently, contributing to their legacies. Hagan reflects on specific anecdotes from his interviews that reveal personal beliefs and defenses each has about their time with Lennon. His anecdotes, particularly regarding the interplay of fandom and rivalry, highlight the intricate dynamics that existed within this iconic trio.
Paul McCartney and Jan Wenner's Relationship
The discussion delves into the fraught relationship Jan Wenner had with McCartney, rooted in distrust and conflict. Paul was acutely aware of what he perceived as Wenner’s bias toward Lennon, leading him to regard Wenner with suspicion. Hagan notes that this distrust was mutual, emanating from Wenner's desire to align himself with Lennon while sidelining McCartney. As the conversation unfolds, it becomes evident that the media's portrayal of McCartney has contributed to a century-long narrative about his contributions to The Beatles that Paul continuously feels he must negotiate.
Media Manipulation and Myth-Making
The podcast examines how both Ono and McCartney became adept at using the media to further their own narratives. Wenner's editorial decisions and personal biases influenced the way events and people were portrayed in Rolling Stone, favoring Lennon’s image. The dynamic reveals a broader commentary on how celebrity culture is constructed via media narratives, where personal relationships and power plays muddy the waters. McCartney’s efforts to position himself against this backdrop illustrate the challenges of navigating public perception while attempting to maintain authenticity.
The Role of Ringo Starr
Hagan shares a previously unpublished anecdote about Ringo Starr’s induction into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, revealing tensions and dynamics amongst the Beatles. He addresses how Paul’s feelings regarding this event were emblematic of deeper, unresolved issues surrounding the band's legacy. This moment serves as a significant reference point in the ongoing narrative of Beatles’ history and is indicative of the interpersonal politics that exist between the surviving members. The anecdote underscores the fact that even lighthearted moments are often shaded by past grievances and emotional complexities.
Journalism and Celebrity Culture
The podcast explores the intersections of journalism and celebrity culture as they pertain to the Beatles. Hagan positions Wenner as both a cultural arbiter and a participant in shaping the mythology surrounding rock music, especially concerning its titular figures. The implications of Wenner’s choices to elevate certain narratives over others come to the forefront. This scrutiny of Wenner's role brings into question the integrity and objectives of journalistic practices inherent in the culture of celebrity.
The Emotional Weight of Historical Relationships
A recurring theme throughout the conversation is the emotional weight that historical relationships carry for the involved individuals. Hagan points out that artists often hold onto resentments and grievances from decades past, hinting at how personal history shapes their current relationships. This continuity of animosities is not unique to the Beatles; it reflects a broader reality in the world of rock and roll. The podcast suggests that such emotional baggage complicates both personal interactions and public personas, especially as these artists continue to navigate their legacy.
The Evolution of Beatles and Solo Careers
The discussion touches on the evolution of each member's career post-Beatles, particularly focusing on how their past together continues to influence their solo work. Hagan emphasizes that while Lennon’s death reshaped how each artist is perceived, it did not erase the competition nor the need to define their legacies. This reality underscores the notion that nostalgia infuses every discussion surrounding the Beatles. The conversation implies that as time progresses, so too does the need for these artists to negotiate their identities, both individually and collectively.
SUMMARY
Welcome to STRANGE BEDFELLOWS, an AKOM series about Yoko Ono and Paul McCartney after John Lennon's death.
In Episode 2 we welcome author Joe Hagan for a loose, candid and wide-ranging conversation centered around Paul, Yoko and Jann Wenner.
Topics include: Rolling Stone’s stake in the Ono-McCartney drama, Jann’s autobiography, the Rock Hall, Paul’s endorsement of Wenner’s book, McCartney’s image building, Joe’s experiences interviewing both McCartney and Ono, Yoko’s attitude towards Paul, Paul’s “Fairy Dust,” Wenner’s philosophy and attitude towards music and pop culture, John and Yoko’s media obsession, George Harrison and loads MORE.
PLAYLIST
Well, Well, Well JOHN LENNON (1970)
Wanna Be Your Man ROCK HALL PERFORMERS (2015)
Yes, I’m Your Angel YOKO ONO (1980)
Do the Oz JOHN LENNON (1970)
Smile Away PAUL McCARTNEY (1971)
Three Legs PAUL McCARTNEY (1971)
Wah Wah GEORGE HARRISON (1970)
Get Me Out of Here PAUL McCARTNEY (2013)
SOURCES
“Sticky Fingers, the Life and Times of Jann Wenner and Rolling Stone Magazine” Joe Hagan. Knopf (October 24, 2017)
“Jann Wenner: Like a Rolling Stone” Jann Wenner. Little, Brown and Company (September 13, 2022)
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