Today on the flagship podcast of the many definitions of electronic paper:

03:12 -The Verge’s David Pierce takes a look at the Boox Palma, a phone-shaped e-reader that runs Android. He also compares notes with Clockwise’s Matt Martin and writer Craig Mod.

30:06 - The Verge’s Nathan Edwards and Tom Warren join the show to discuss their experience using Microsoft’s new Surface Copilot PCs. They also answer a question from The Vergecast Hotline.

Email us at vergecast@theverge.com or call us at 866-VERGE11, we love hearing from you.

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Rejection Hurts