In this episode, Dr. David Yeager, a psychology professor at the University of Texas, shares groundbreaking insights from his book 10 to 25: The Science of Motivating Young People. He challenges common misconceptions about teen motivation and presents research-based strategies for parents and teachers to encourage teens. Dr. Yeager explains how understanding the teenage brain, using autonomy-supportive language, and practicing "do-overs" can improve communication and motivation.

WHAT YOU'LL LEARN IN THIS EPISODE

The science behind motivating teenagers and turning procrastination into action.
Why the teenage brain isn't "incompetent" and how it responds to different stimuli than adults.
How to use autonomy-supportive language to connect with your teen and boost motivation.
The importance of aligning your arguments with your teen’s values.
How to use “do-overs” to repair communication breakdowns and strengthen your relationship with your teen.

5 KEY TAKEAWAYS FOR PARENTS OF TEENS

Motivate by understanding, not controlling: The teenage brain is wired differently but isn’t "broken." Understanding their perspective and values leads to better motivation.
Autonomy matters: Teens need to feel in control of their choices, so use autonomy-supportive language to encourage responsibility.
Teen emotions are powerful: Harness the intensity of teen emotions instead of fearing them. These emotions can be a source of motivation if managed well.
Communication is key: When communication breaks down, practice “do-overs” to repair the situation and strengthen your relationship.
Don’t fear the challenges: The struggle to motivate teens is not a sign of failure—it's an opportunity to connect and guide them more effectively.

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RESOURCES MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE

10 TO 25, the Science of Motivating Young People by Dr. David Yeager

EPISODE CHAPTERS

00:00 Introduction: Unlocking the Science of Motivating Young People
03:41 Understanding the Teenage Brain: A New Perspective
06:27 Motivating Teenagers: The Power of Autonomy Support
14:44 Building Stronger Connections with Teenagers: Practicing Do-Overs

CONNECT WITH OUR GUEST: Dr. David Yeager

Website: DavidYeager.com
Twitter: @DavidYeager

CONNECT WITH YOUR HOST: Dr. Cam Caswell

FULL TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Cam (00:01.513)
If you're like most parents, motivating your teen to do anything productive can feel like a daily struggle. But what if we could unlock the secret to turning procrastination into action, disinterest into engagement, and resistance into enthusiasm? That’s what we’re going to talk about today. I’m thrilled to be joined by Dr. David Yeager, a professor of psychology at the University of Texas at Austin, renowned for his influential research alongside esteemed colleagues like Carol Dweck, Angela Duckworth, and Greg Walton. In his latest book, 10 to 25: The Science of Motivating Young People, Dr. Yeager dives deep into the science of adolescent motivation. He’s going to share some of his findings with us today. Dr. Yeager, welcome to the show!

Dr. David Yeager (00:46.424)
Thanks for having me. I was a middle school teacher right out of college, teaching sixth through eighth-grade English at a low-income school. I also taught K through eighth-grade PE, meaning I had seven or eight preps a day. I struggled with all the challenges you can imagine—everything from getting third graders to line up for dodgeball to getting seventh graders to read The Once and Future King and The Outsiders, and turn in essays on time. I felt frustrated by the advice I was given by the scientific community and research, which led me to want to do better research. I’ve spent my career trying to conduct applied research that provides parents and teachers concrete suggestions on what to say (and what not to say) based on rigorous experiments.

Dr. Cam (01:49.151)
You’ve definitely piqued everyone’s interest. I’m curious, what was the advice you received earlier that didn’t work?

Dr. David Yeager (02:02.478)
Think back 20 years. The big ideas around motivation for young people were about their traits—some kids are motivated, others aren’t. Some kids are helpless, some are extroverted, others are reserved. Yes, there are individual differences, but that’s not useful for me. I’m not going to give a personality test on the first day of class and say, “Okay, you’re the type who’s just going to sit there doing nothing.” The other advice was abstract and didn’t have experimental backing. It would say things like, “Set a mastery goal” or “Promote intrinsic motivation over extrinsic motivation,” but real life is more nuanced. For example, if someone asked me how to motivate an eight-year-old, I’d say, “I use a lot of Pokemon cards and candy.” With younger kids, you need something to get them over the initial hump. Once they realize success feels good, you can build intrinsic motivation over time. The advice I received was either too simplistic or not useful. I wanted clarity on what to say to make kids more intrinsically motivated or persistent, and that’s what we’ve focused on in our randomized experiments.

Dr. Cam (03:41.47)
I love this and can’t wait to hear more. Let’s talk quickly about why it feels so hard to motivate our teenagers in the first place.

Dr. David Yeager (03:53.74)
A traditional narrative is that something’s wrong with this generation—brainwashed by phones, distracted by political unrest, and so on. While there are differences compared to when we were growing up, I think a lot of the complaints are overstated. For example, think about how much more attention we can give now with technology—like when you’re driving, you don’t have to worry about getting lost because you have Google Maps. We used to spend so much time with physical maps or printing out directions from MapQuest, hoping the printer worked. Sure, there are distractions now, but we wasted a lot of time in the past, too.

Dr. Cam (04:30.849)
Thank God for that! I remember getting lost a lot more.

Dr. David Yeager (04:51.212)
Right? I think a lot of what’s happening now is a net even. Older generations have always complained about younger ones—this goes back to Aristotle and Plato. What I want to focus on is the timeless aspects of the adolescent brain that haven’t changed over the course of hundreds of thousands of years, and how they respond to cultural and technological shifts. Fundamentally, young people’s brains, from the onset of puberty, start craving experiences of status. The feeling of earning a prestigious reputation in the eyes of someone they care about has never felt as good as it does during puberty. On the flip side, the humiliation of being rejected or failing publicly at something important never feels worse. Given the intensity of these emotions, we as parents can’t just tell kids to “get over it.” We have to understand it and figure out how to harness it.

Dr. Cam (06:26.913)
I love this because it speaks to how parents often say, “Well, this is how I was raised, and it worked for me.” But 20 years ago, we didn’t know nearly as much as we know now about the brain and teen development. We know so much more now that can help us avoid some of the trauma many adults are still recovering from. If we can prevent that, why wouldn’t we? Let’s talk about the teen brain. I’m with you—evolution doesn’t change that quickly. The world around teens today has changed drastically, and they’re doing the best they can in this world we’ve created.

Dr. David Yeager (07:42.146)
The most important thing to keep in mind is that there are different metaphors for what the teenage brain is doing. The metaphor we choose shapes how we deal with it. One common view is that young people are neurobiologically incompetent—that the moment puberty strikes, they get a “frontal lobotomy,” can’t plan ahead, can’t reason logically, are short-sighted, impulsive, and selfish. That view goes back to Plato’s Phaedrus, where young people were compared to unruly horses needing to be controlled by a charioteer. Neuroscientists have used this view, partly because it has served as a convenient legal argument for youth offenders. It’s true that kids don’t always think about the lifelong consequences of their actions, but that doesn’t mean they aren’t thinking. They’re just thinking about different things, not long-term self-interest.

The updated view is a neurobiological competence model. Teens are really good at some things—just not what adults expect. The teenage brain is like the R&D engine for our culture. As society and technology change, teens have to adapt quickly and figure out how to succeed in our world—and they do this far faster than adults. What adults may see as a short attention span is often the brain at the frontier of innovation. Think about it: The same adults who complain about kids loitering at the mall might be served by an excellent 16-year-old waiter without even noticing. The teenage brain is paying attention to different things, and once we understand what those things are, we can communicate more effectively, inspiring independence and motivation in young people.

Dr. Cam (10:46.249):
That’s fantastic. It’s so true. Their priorities are different from ours, but that doesn’t make them wrong; it makes them different. My understanding is that the prefrontal cortex is still developing during adolescence, forming connections. So, complex skills like emotional regulation and problem-solving are still being developed. It doesn’t mean they can’t do these things, but they’re primed to learn how to do them better. This is a time for practicing those skills, but we can’t expect them to have it all figured out yet. Is that correct?

Dr. David Yeager (11:28.268):
Yes, that’s mostly correct. The brain’s emotional regulation is an experience-dependent process. Some things, like bone growth from drinking milk, happen automatically, but emotional regulation depends on experiences. You learn to regulate emotions by actually going through emotional experiences. The old model suggested that logical reasoning in the prefrontal cortex dampens the impulsive emotional regions of the brain, but now we know that the emotional areas teach the prefrontal cortex what to care about. Carol Dweck, who developed growth mindset theory, recently published a paper showing that goal-directedness, driven by emotions, guides the brain’s development. Teenagers can focus their cognitive resources when motivated by something important to them, and that experience changes their brain and their mindset. The challenge for us as adults is that when there’s a conflict, it’s often because their goal isn’t to regulate their emotions to meet our demands. Their brain won’t be receptive to our goals unless they perceive them as important.

Dr. Cam (13:53.183):
This ties right into motivation. We’re not saying kids aren’t motivated; they just aren’t motivated to do what we want them to. When we talk about kids being unmotivated or lazy, it’s not that they lack motivation or drive, it’s that they’re focused on things we don’t care about.

Dr. David Yeager (14:18.574):
Exactly. The same parents who complain about their kids not doing homework or practicing the cello will find that their kids are excellent at planning how to sneak out to a party. That’s goal-directed behavior. Teenagers are incredibly good at setting and achieving goals. It’s like watching a 17-year-old Canadian win gold in swimming at the Olympics. Teenagers can absolutely focus when it matters to them, but their priorities are different. Our task as adults is to figure out what matters to them, which often comes back to social reputation or status—not in a superficial way, like social media likes, but in a deep, meaningful way. The question they’re asking is: How am I a valuable contributor in the eyes of people whose opinions I care about? And adults often don’t care about that; they just want compliance. They want kids to listen because we said so. That’s fine when they’re little and we need them to get their shoes on for school, but as they grow, we can’t expect them to simply obey without question. That doesn’t help them be the innovators we need for the future.

Dr. Cam (16:01.181):
It makes so much sense. When we project them into the future, do we want kids who just do what they’re told? We see this now in the workforce, where many complain that kids can’t think for themselves and only do the bare minimum. But it’s not because something’s wrong with them; it’s how we’ve raised them.

Dr. David Yeager (16:25.014):
Yes, we’ve done it to them. The emotional development of the brain is an experience-dependent process. If kids grow up thinking they should listen to adults without question just because they said so, they’ll either stop listening to anyone or, worse, they’ll become compliant without thinking. We’ve seen this problem in society, where people just pick a side and repeat what their team says without engaging in real discussion. What we need are young people who can think critically, consider nuanced alternatives, and apply them in their lives. If we raise kids like that, society will benefit greatly, not just in terms of parenting, but because those kids will become innovators who can solve the world’s biggest problems.

Dr. Cam (17:27.263):
Right. One thing that trips us up is perceiving their attempts to express their opinions or what’s important to them as disrespect. We shut it down and say, “You’re not allowed to say that.” I see this often, and I think it sends a harmful message that their opinion is wrong just because it differs from ours. That creates someone who can’t think independently.

Dr. David Yeager (17:56.118)
Yeah, I think the biggest confusion I see is around the word "respect" or "listen." This is influenced by Rosalyn Wiseman, a thoughtful parenting leader. When parents say "respect," they usually mean unquestioned obedience. When kids say "respect," they mean being heard and valued as real people. Same with "listening." When kids say, "Nobody listens to me," they mean nobody cares about their perspective or why they might have legitimate reasons for being reluctant. What I’d love is to have a shared definition of respect, where people are treated as adult-like humans with independent thoughts and feelings.
The reason adults view it one way and kids view it another is due to the neurobiological incompetence model. If adults think young people can’t think, that they’re impulsive or short-sighted, then why would we care about their opinions? We assume we’ve already figured it out. But if we adopt a neurobiological competence model, where we see young people as adapting to culture before we are, understanding things we don’t yet see, it makes more sense to ask questions, listen, and see where they’re coming from.

Dr. Cam (19:52.37)
I love that. It explains so well that we need to value them as unique individuals with their own minds and needs, not as extensions of us who just need to do what we want. This is where I see a lot of friction between parents and teens.

Dr. David Yeager (20:12.172)
Yeah, there’s a study I talk about in the book where I look at a phenomenon I call "grown-splaining"—kind of like mansplaining, but it’s grown-ups telling kids what to do. The logic behind it is, "If only you would listen to my clear, logical reasons, you’d change." But that doesn’t work. In the study, they recorded moms nagging their teenage daughters and then put the daughters in an fMRI scanner to see what happens in the brain. What they found is that the logical reasoning regions of the brain actually go down. The anger regions go up, meaning the teenage girls are getting more frustrated. But what’s most interesting is that the social cognition regions of the brain, the areas related to understanding the meaning behind what’s being said, were less active.
So when a teenager hears nagging, they’re not processing the reasoning—it’s like the words go in one ear and out the other. But this is situational—it’s about the tone of our voice, how we tell them what to do, and not involving them in the conversation. When we impose our goals and values without their input, they check out. But if we create a different context, we can see much better engagement.

Dr. Cam (22:20.543)
I want to flip this a bit because I can already hear parents asking, "So, should we just let them do whatever they want? Are we always wrong and they’re always right?" They’re worried about things like video games taking over their kids’ lives while homework or chores get ignored. These are real concerns. How do we address that?

Dr. David Yeager (22:45.55)
For sure. The wrong response is to say, "We should have no standards and let the kids run everything." That’s not what I’m suggesting. In my book, I talk about experts who work with young people, like the best manager at Microsoft for 20-year-olds or a top high school physics teacher. I also spoke with a coach who works with teenage NBA draft prospects. What they do is nothing like letting young people run wild. They have incredibly high expectations, but they provide the support for kids to meet those expectations.
What we’ve learned is that there are two ways to get this wrong. One is what we call an "enforcer mindset," where the goal is to enforce high standards and leave the kids to meet them on their own. This can make parents come across as authoritarian—compliance might happen, but it’s not willful. The other extreme is the "protector mindset," where parents focus on protecting kids from distress and low self-esteem, leading to low expectations and kids walking all over them.
The middle ground is the "mentor mindset." In this model, you have very high standards but also high support. This combination helps kids develop into meaningful contributors to society, able to follow rules but doing so because they understand the reasons and internalize the values. It’s not about dictating rules—it’s about helping them take ownership. I’ve seen this in action, and it works. There are many examples and practices from these mentor-leaders in the book, and fortunately, anyone can start applying them.

Dr. Cam (25:24):
So, give us some examples because I think there’s a very fine line to walk here. People really struggle with the difference between mentoring and controlling—or maybe more accurately, micromanaging. I see a lot of micromanaging, where parents think they’re helping and teaching. What’s the difference?

Dr. David Yeager (25:48):
Yeah. Well, I think if you hold a high standard for things like personal conduct—like cleaning your room or helping around the house—young people will complain. They don’t want to do those things. And the easiest way to stop the complaints is to just lower the standard. "Okay, fine, I’ll do it," right? I have four kids, so I get that. But sometimes, when we hold the standard, it turns into a shouting match. And we’re left thinking, “Who have I become?”

What I’ve learned is a couple of things. One is that a big reason for complaints is that we’re often not transparent about why we’re holding the standard. We might just say, “Do this,” and when they ask why, we say, “Because I said so.” We don’t explain. But explanations show respect. If I asked you to do something for me without giving a reason, I’d come across like a jerk. I’d be manipulating you. But we talk to teenagers this way all the time, which would be totally inappropriate with other adults. The problem is that we still think they’re children, and they think they’re adults. So, there’s this two- to three-year gap in communication. They feel talked down to, and we feel like we’re being appropriate.

So, sometimes, you can ask for the same thing but be clear about your intentions. Show them how what you’re asking will help them become a better person or contribute to their happiness. Transparency is one simple step. Another, a bit harder, but very important, is questioning. Instead of just telling them, try asking for their perspectives. Avoid questions like, “What were you thinking?” because that implies they weren’t thinking. Instead, show curiosity by asking authentic questions that invite them to share their reasoning. When you do this, they feel respected and heard, and they’ll often start telling you what you want.

I’ll tell you, a lot of this comes from negotiation tactics, like those used in hostage situations. Sometimes talking to a teenager about going to a party feels like a hostage negotiation! And it turns out, the same tactics that work for negotiating with hostages also work with teenagers.

Dr. Cam (28:51):
That’s so true. The power of empathy and validating their feelings is key. We struggle with this because some people confuse it with agreeing with them. It doesn’t mean agreeing with their anger or frustration—it just means acknowledging that their feelings are real, which is non-negotiable. What they feel is what they feel.

Dr. David Yeager (29:08):
Exactly. Dr. Becky has a great phrase: the "most charitable interpretation." When your teenager does something frustrating, pause and try to think, “What’s the most charitable possible interpretation of this behavior?” Often, their behavior is just their way of seeking status and respect, either from you or from their peers. If you start with curiosity, trying to understand what they want, it doesn’t mean you have to agree with them. But understanding them puts you in a better position to negotiate.

The problem with negotiations is offering something they don’t want. If you understand what they want, you can offer a deal they’re more likely to accept. That’s often what it’s like talking to teenagers.

Dr. Cam (30:03):
I tell parents all the time, you might be offering a solution, but you’re solving for your problem, not theirs. Then, when they don’t agree with it, you get upset. That happens a lot. So, I know parents are still wondering, “How do we actually motivate them to do their homework?”

Dr. David Yeager (30:21):
Well, there’s 380 pages in the book on this! But I’ll say there are different reasons why they don’t do their homework. Sometimes it’s because the homework feels too hard, and they fear failure. They worry that trying hard will just expose their lack of ability, which is the fixed mindset in action. Another reason could be time pressure. If the homework is due the next day, they feel overwhelmed—racing heart, sweaty palms. That’s anxiety.

In one paper I published in Nature a few years ago, we reframed difficulty. We showed that difficulty actually means you’re doing something ambitious. It’s a sign you care about something important. And those physical symptoms—the racing heart, the sweaty palms—are actually your body mobilizing resources to help you perform better. Your body sweats to cool itself down, and that helps you think more clearly. Your heart races to get oxygenated blood to your brain, which helps you think faster. So, reframing anxiety as excitement can help.

There are other reasons they don’t do homework, like not seeing the point, but I cover those in detail in the book, with practical tools.

Dr. Cam (32:16):
That’s great. So, let’s break it down into the three key takeaways for parents—things they can use to connect better and understand their teen.

Dr. David Yeager (32:37):
Sure. The three main takeaways I’d suggest are:

Tone and word choice matter in tough conversations. The difference between autonomy-supportive language and controlling language is huge. For example, saying “You might consider” or “Have you thought about this?” is autonomy-supportive. Saying “You should do this” or “You must do this” is controlling. Tiny changes in how we phrase things can make a big difference.
Align your argument with their values. Often, we try to get them to care about things that don’t resonate with them. But there are values they care about that can align with your goals. For example, instead of saying, “You need to do your homework so you can get into a good college,” say, “This homework will help you build skills that you’ll need to solve real-world problems.” You can connect what they’re doing to a value they care about.
Give yourself do-overs when you mess up. We’re all raised in a culture that’s been getting teenagers wrong for a long time. Don’t expect yourself to get it perfect every time. But it’s not like a failure that you can’t recover from—there are endless do-overs. I’ve started telling my kids, “I didn’t handle that the way I should’ve. I should have asked you about your reasons for not doing it. Can you share that with me, so we can figure it out together?” When you do that, they often forget the initial frustration, and you’re able to work through things together. Those do-over conversations get easier and faster over time.

Dr. Cam (35:54):
And those are great things to model for our teens. When we do it, they’ll start doing it for us. Most of the time, that’s what we’ve been trying to get them to do anyway! When we take control of ourselves and how we show up, everything changes. I could talk to you for hours more—there’s so much more I want to ask you. This has been so enlightening and interesting. But how can people find you, and tell us about your book?

Dr. David Yeager (36:25):
The book is called 10 to 25: The Science of Motivating Young People. If you care about or know anything about young people ages 10 to 25, this book is for you. We want to stop the miscommunications and frustration that cause so much tension between generations. It’s available at Barnes & Noble, Amazon, and Simon & Schuster. You can also get bulk discounts if you want to buy it for all your friends. I’m on LinkedIn, and you can find me through the University of Texas at Austin, where I have a professor website.

Dr. Cam (37:06):
What are you researching?

Dr. David Yeager (37:10):
I’ve always focused on kids in school—how they transition from middle school to high school, high school to college. Now, we’re thinking about the workforce. Are 20-year-olds entering workplaces where the managers know how to motivate them? And what about the 70% of kids who don’t go to four-year colleges? Do they have bosses who understand what young people need in terms of status and respect? Or are they stuck with bad jobs and bad managers? We’re looking at alternative pathways to the workforce, regardless of college education, and trying to help managers understand how to inspire and motivate young people.

Dr. Cam (38:02):
That’s amazing! And when they’re inspired, their employees thrive. Thank you so much for joining me today. I really appreciate it.

About the Show:

The Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam Podcast is your go-to resource for navigating the challenges of raising teenagers. Hosted by Dr. Cam Caswell, an adolescent psychologist and certified parenting coach, this podcast offers practical parenting strategies, expert advice, and real-world insights to help you build a stronger relationship with your teen and support their emotional growth. Whether you’re struggling with teenage behavior or looking to improve communication, each episode provides actionable tips to make parenting teens easier and more rewarding. Perfect for both new and seasoned parents, this podcast helps you build the confidence to handle teen challenges and thrive together. #theteentranslator #drcamcaswell #parentingteenswithdrcam

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