The New York Police Department is perhaps the most famous—or notorious—police force in America, depending on who you talk to. Some see it as a group of thousands of dedicated civil servants, devoted to public safety. Others say the department is rife with corruption, tangled in politics, and—at best—indifferent to the racist brutality its officers visit on Black citizens of the city.

Now, a new podcast aims to shed light on the complicated history of the N.Y.P.D. and race. “Empire City” is a new narrative series from Wondery, Crooked Media and Push Black. On today’s episode of A Word, Jason Johnson is joined by the show’s host and creator, NYU journalism professor Chenjerai Kumanyika.

Guest: Chenjerai Kumanyika, host of Empire City: The Untold Origin Story of the NYPD

Podcast production by Kristie Taiwo-Makanjuola

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The Dark Side of the Force