On this episode of The David Frum Show, The Atlantic’s David Frum opens with observations about the ongoing government shutdown, how it could be a strategic mistake for Republicans, and why this political standoff is best understood as a “quasi-election” about the rule of law itself.

Then Frum is joined by Lord Charles Moore, the authorized biographer of Margaret Thatcher, to mark the centenary of her birth. Together, they look back on Thatcher’s transformation of Britain, from nationalized stagnation to a revitalized free-market democracy, and her alliance with Ronald Reagan, which helped bring the Cold War to a close. Moore explains how Thatcher’s belief in “law-based liberty” and her defense of national sovereignty set her apart from both libertarians and nationalists, and why her example of disciplined, principled leadership feels more and more distant in the politics of today.

In the book segment, David discusses Stefan Zweig’s The World of Yesterday, and reflects on exile, despair, and why holding on to hope, rather than despair, matters when history suddenly turns dark.

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