Authors John DeLury and Nigel Inkster discuss China's espionage tactics and the US-China intelligence relationship. They delve into historical cases, the evolution of Chinese intelligence, challenges in monitoring Chinese activities, and China's unique intelligence structure. The podcast offers insights on global intelligence alliances and China's geopolitical influence.
Historical lack of communication between US and China led to long imprisonment of CIA agents in Cold War era.
China's modern espionage focuses on recruiting assets from Chinese diaspora, posing challenges for US national security.
Deep dives
Sweeping Historical Espionage Mission: Downey and Fekto's 20-Year Capture
During the Cold War era, CIA agents John Downey and Richard Fekto embarked on a daring mission to extract an operative from Communist China. Unfortunately, they were captured for nearly two decades, showcasing the lack of communication between the US and China. Their release only came about with Nixon's efforts to open relations in the early 70s, highlighting the historic secrecy and misunderstandings between the two nations.
Modern Spycraft: China's Strategic Intelligence Operations
Modern espionage has seen China scale up its intelligence operations, focusing on recruiting assets from the Chinese diaspora to gather information in a patient and incremental manner. The Ministry of State Security directs espionage efforts nationwide, with local bureaus focusing on specific regions or countries. China's growing prowess in intelligence gathering poses challenges for US national security, exemplified by the execution of US informers traced back to an Iranian intelligence leak.
National Security Dynamics: Balancing Efficiency with Ethical and Racial Complexities
Amid escalating espionage activities, the US faces complexities in counterintelligence against China, particularly concerning Asian Americans and the State Department clearances. The MSS's public announcements of capturing spies indicate China's reinforced security stance and crackdown on leaks. The delicate balance between national security imperatives and preventing racial discrimination in intelligence operations poses ongoing challenges for both countries.
Two young CIA agents were flown to northern China in 1952, part of a bizarre Cold War operation to overthrow Mao Zedong. The plane crashed. The two Americans were arrested, and jailed for 20 years. We fast forward to today and turn the tables: How does China spy on the US now? Who is ahead in the fight over the new technologies?
Guests: John DeLury, author, Agents of Subversion; Nigel Inkster, former director operations, MI6; former agent in Beijing.
Details about John Delury’s compelling book that tells the story of how two CIA operatives were captured in China and how they endured 20 years in jail.