Mark Meadows Will Put the Smoking Gun in Trumps Hands + A Conversation With Norm Eisen
Oct 30, 2023
auto_awesome
Norm Eisen, CNN Legal Analyst and founder of 'States United Democracy Center', unpacks the repercussions of Mark Meadows' testimony against Donald Trump, including potential evidence and criminal exposure. They also discuss the legitimacy of Tish James' case, Trump's contempt of court, and the dangerous impact of social media. The podcast explores Trump's legal consequences, Giuliani as a potential star witness, and the persistence of Trumpism on state and local levels.
Mark Meadows' testimony could implicate Trump in ongoing legal cases and weaken his defense.
Meadows' cooperation provides an insider's view of the coup and potential evidence of Trump's involvement.
Giuliani's potential cooperation may uncover further misconduct and implicate Trump, but he is unlikely to consider plea deals until after the 2024 election.
Deep dives
The pressure on Trump's men and women to flip as loyalty comes at a cost
In the last week alone, prominent co-defendants Jenna Ellis, Kenneth Chestro, and Sidney Powell have all struck deals with the district attorney. Former Trump chief of staff Mark Meadows has also been granted full immunity to testify under oath, revealing that Trump's election fraud claims were baseless. Meadows' cooperation could implicate Trump and prompt him to turn on his former chief of staff. Trump's advisors and attorneys suspect Meadows may highlight Trump's potential culpability in ongoing legal cases. However, Trump is unlikely to plea or cooperate before the 2024 election.
Mark Meadows' immunized testimony against Donald Trump
Meadows' testimony could be a knockout punch for Trump as it offers an insider's view of how the coup unfolded. Meadows has firsthand knowledge of the events and conversations that took place during the attempted coup. His cooperation could provide evidence of Trump's awareness that he lost the election and his role in the efforts to overturn the results. Meadows could implicate not only Trump but also other key figures such as Rudy Giuliani. Meadows' testimony, along with recent defections like Sidney Powell and Jenna Ellis, weakens Trump's defense and exposes him to increased legal jeopardy.
Potential ramifications of pleading guilty for Rudy Giuliani
As the pressure mounts and legal costs become a burden, Giuliani might consider pleading guilty and cooperating. However, Trump's refusal to help Giuliani financially and the slim chance of winning the 2024 election may push Giuliani towards cooperating with prosecutors. Giuliani's cooperation would be damaging for Trump as it could unveil further misconduct and potentially implicate Trump himself. But Trump is unlikely to entertain any plea deals until after the 2024 election, as he still believes he could secure a presidential win and possibly pardon himself.
Exploring Section 3 of the 14th Amendment
The application of Section 3 of the 14th Amendment, which prohibits public officials who engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the United States from assuming public office, is being tested in various court cases around the country. While the question of whether it could keep Trump off the ballot is uncertain, the conduct of Trump on January 6th aligns with the definition of insurrection. However, the courts will ultimately decide the application of Section 3 and its impact on Trump's eligibility for public office.
The election of Maga Mike Johnson as House Speaker
Maga Mike Johnson is unlikely to be a stabilizing figure in the Republican Party. He has a hardcore Maga follower and has shown his willingness to perpetuate false narratives, such as the baseless allegations of election fraud. Johnson's election further normalizes the Maga agenda and pushes the Republican House further to the right.
Norm Eisen is back with us today to unpack the repercussions of Mark Meadows testimony against Donald Trump along with a slew of recent defectors from Sidney Powell to Jenna Ellis. Each one of these is a body blow to Trump's weakening defense. But Meadows could put the smoking gun in his hand. If you happen to be tuning in for the first time, Eisen is a CNN Legal Analyst and the founder and executive chair of “States United Democracy Center”, a nonpartisan organization advancing free, fair, and secure elections. His articles for the Brookings Institute and elsewhere have made the case for why Trump and his band of criminal conspiracists represented a clear and present danger to democracy. The former Obama Ethics Czar and Ambassador to the Czech Republic joins us today to get to the heart of what’s going on.
Get the Snipd podcast app
Unlock the knowledge in podcasts with the podcast player of the future.
AI-powered podcast player
Listen to all your favourite podcasts with AI-powered features
Discover highlights
Listen to the best highlights from the podcasts you love and dive into the full episode
Save any moment
Hear something you like? Tap your headphones to save it with AI-generated key takeaways
Share & Export
Send highlights to Twitter, WhatsApp or export them to Notion, Readwise & more
AI-powered podcast player
Listen to all your favourite podcasts with AI-powered features
Discover highlights
Listen to the best highlights from the podcasts you love and dive into the full episode