Leading Saints Podcast

Toxic Perfectionism at Church | An Interview with Justin Dyer

Mar 29, 2025

In this intriguing conversation, Justin Dyer, a BYU professor specializing in religion and mental health, dives into the concept of toxic perfectionism, particularly among Latter-day Saints. He reveals surprising research showing that Latter-day Saint youth experience lower levels of toxic perfectionism than their atheist peers. The discussion also touches on how spiritual practices can foster self-acceptance and the significance of supportive communities. Justin emphasizes the need for unconditional parental support and compassionate church leadership to help individuals navigate their faith and identity.

51:30

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Episode guests

Justin Dyer

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Episode notes

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Quick takeaways

Toxic perfectionism affects youth across various backgrounds, with Latter-day Saints showing lower prevalence than atheists, challenging prevalent assumptions.

Open discussions about emotions can help normalize youth's complex feelings, fostering healthier conversations around mental health and resilience.

Parenting styles, particularly authoritarian approaches, contribute significantly to toxic perfectionism, emphasizing the need for supportive and loving relationships with children.

Deep dives

Normalizing Tough Feelings

Youth often struggle with complex emotions, making it essential for adults to normalize these feelings. Many young individuals experience shame regarding their emotions, which can lead to harmful behaviors and mental health issues. By discussing emotions openly and creating a supportive environment, adults can help youth feel understood and valued. Presentations that focus on this normalization can empower leaders and parents to foster healthier conversations around mental health.

Intro

3min

Understanding Toxic Perfectionism in Faith

13min

The Burden of Perfection: Self-Acceptance in Faith

12min

Parental Influence on Spiritual Identity

9min

Navigating Challenges of Faith and Identity in LGBTQ Communities

2min

Navigating Toxic Perfectionism Through Faith

3min

Navigating Spiritual Perfectionism

6min

Navigating Women's Roles and Church Support in a Changing Landscape

3min

Justin Dyer received BA in Marriage and Family from Brigham Young University and a Master’s and Ph.D. in Human Development and Family Studies from the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign. He also has expertise in statistics. Justin is a professor of religion at BYU, teaching religion and family classes, and focuses his research on religion and mental health. He has published over 70 peer-reviewed studies in scholarly journals.

Justin has served in various Church callings including full-time missionary in Brazil, Primary teacher, early morning Seminary teacher, Young Men leader, and bishop. He currently serves as a ward missionary. Most importantly, Justin has been married for 22 years and has six children whom he loves to inundate with the most recent, intriguing research graphs he has created.

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Highlights

Justin talks about toxic perfectionism, particularly within the context of Latter-day Saints. He shares his research findings, which challenge the common belief that Latter-day Saints are inherently more prone to toxic perfectionism than individuals from other religious backgrounds. He explains that while 12% of Latter-day Saint youth exhibit high levels of toxic perfectionism, this figure is lower than the 20% found among atheists and agnostics, suggesting that toxic perfectionism is a broader human tendency rather than a specific issue tied to religious beliefs.

The conversation delves into the nuances of perfectionism, distinguishing between healthy striving for high standards and the detrimental effects of toxic perfectionism, which can lead to feelings of worthlessness and shame. Justin emphasizes the importance of fostering a secure attachment to God, which can mitigate feelings of toxic perfectionism. He highlights the role of parents and leaders in creating an environment of love and support, rather than shame, to help youth navigate their identities and self-worth. The episode also addresses the challenges faced by LGBTQ youth within religious contexts, advocating for a compassionate approach that maintains the value of religious teachings while providing necessary support. The conversation underscores the significance of identity and the need for leaders and parents to remind youth of their inherent worth as children of God, encouraging them to strive for high standards without the burden of toxic perfectionism.

01:41 – Introduction of Justin Dyer and Research Focus
02:56 – Exploring Toxic Perfectionism
03:41 – Research Intent and Methodology
05:12 – Understanding Toxic Perfectionism
06:48 – Healthy vs. Toxic Perfectionism
09:46 – Impact of Perfectionism on Identity
10:33 – Balancing Standards and Self-Worth
12:06 – The Role of Perfectionism in Religious Context
13:13 – Addressing Youth and Leadership Dynamics
14:03 – The Challenge of Leadership Messaging
16:44 – Data Insights on Toxic Perfectionism
20:06 – The Role of Religion in Mental Health
22:44 – Encouraging a Positive Gospel Experience
24:33 – Parenting and Toxic Perfectionism in Youth
27:01 – The Importance of Love in Parenting
28:51 – The Impact of Parental Relationships on Identity
30:41 – Navigating Adolescence and Identity
32:27 – The Dangers of Silent Suffering
34:13 – Encouraging Healthy Standards in Youth
36:36 – Addressing LGBTQ Dynamics in Religious Context
38:10 – The Importance of Individualized Support
40:06 – Adult Experiences with Toxic Perfectionism
42:29 – Building a Secure Relationship with God

The award-winning Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints’ mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org.

Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Elder Alvin F. Meredith III, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, Lynn G. Robbins, J. Devn Cornish, Bonnie Oscarson, Dennis B. Neuenschwander, Kirby Heyborne, Taysom Hill Anthony Sweat, John Hilton III, Barbara Morgan Gardner, Blair Hodges, Whitney Johnson, Ryan Gottfredson, Greg McKeown, Ganel-Lyn Condie, Michael Goodman, Wendy Ulrich, Richard Ostler, and many more in over 800 episodes.