Episode #126 – Peter Awad on Conquering Entrepreneurial Manic Depression with The Slow Hustle

John McIntyre: It’s John McIntyre here, the auto responder guy. I’m here with Peter

Awab. Now Peter came in the wire email. He’s one of the guys who understand … and originally I

thought to go on his podcast, because he has a podcast. A little bit confusing and then I done on the

phone that I find that it was about doing a podcast on the email marketing. So, once you do that sort of

that we had a a topic which I am very passionate, which is this idea of the slow hustle and well I don’t

actually know too much about it, but I have got some ideas that I think what it’s about and probably

get into that and that’s previous thing, it’s a slow hustle and I’m really curious to find out what that

means and hopefully that means walking less and still getting great results and business. So, yeah,

Peter how are you doing man?

Peter: Great man, thanks for having me John.

John McIntyre: Good to have you on the show. Before we get into this tell the

listener a bit about who you are and what you do?

Peter: Yeah absolutely man, so some may call me the serial entrepreneur. I

don’t really like that phrase a whole lot. I just like hacking on ideas that are intruding to me and so

being in e-commerce business since 2000 and then four years ago started a content marketing platform

that’s currently patent-pending called “good blogs” and then you know in the quote-unquote spare time

working on a few other ideas and one of them that was in my head for a while was this idea slow

hustle. I did have a name for a while and it’s just essentially what it is addressing the Dominican

president nature of entrepreneurship and so you know pretty much anybody that I’ve ever talked to

about these feelings pretty much respond with that Oh you too! What you do with that? I thought I was

the only one. I think it’s because that a whole lot of people talk about it. So, when I say manicdepressive

it’s like you know that’s example I have is that you know one day you can leave work you

know your office and feel like you’re really crushing it, like you’re on top of the world and everything is

kind of going right and in a very next day or the next week you can feel like the business is crushing

you and typically there are like really small things that trigger those feelings. Sometimes you can

pinpoint and sometimes you can’t, but any entrepreneur that I’ve ever talked to …have some one

person say no I’ve never felt that way. Everybody have ever talk to you seems to have that same

feeling, the same issues.

John McIntyre: Now interesting question on that note is isn’t manic-depressive

because I’ve had that experience and I know who is in business has that exact same experience, but an

interesting question is people manic depressive and then they get into business or are they manicdepressive

and that’s what draws in the business or is it because they’re in business, this business makes

them manic-depressive.

Peter: I think it’s a latter and I think that what happens is that you get a few

things, one you know you’re not … to before we spread a recording is that when you become less

connected to the business, like you’re not dealing with kind of like that you know the hands-on portion

of business, whether it’s email, if you have somebody else to an email or something like that you feel

little less connected and then sometimes that will lead to you feeling may be less effective, if you’re

not getting those real quick you know boosts, the high you get from like you said going to inbox zero or

something like that and so then you start to question whether you’re doing things right. You start to

may be question whether you’re as smart as you thought you were or I mean I remember talking to

someone who is like you know I get twenty, thirty responses that are positive on a project that I just

released and then I get one MI critical negative response and that kind of sense into a tailspin and then

you start to question kind of everything is doing. So, I think that you know those things plus maybe

even if you’ve gone the other side your nose is too close to the bark sort of speaks and you’re really

watching like every single metric there is. You can always find something negative and in that can send

you down the rabbit hole and feeling like maybe things aren’t going so right.

John McIntyre: How’s your mind with that of this story in abundance if about

how is basic explains why then use is so negative, because a lot of real things is you know just to sell

newspapers and that is why it is, but that doesn’t really explain why is that way and the reason if you

look at like evolution or evolutionary psychology is that when you have you’ve got like two sets of

mention positive information or negative information and positive information is not very valuable

survivor, because if you go you know if in a little … the jungle and you are like positive information is

just not line out there or if you believe it all great what was in the line, if you don’t believe it will

great still say if anyway. Negative information on the other hand that there is a line there if you

believe that greatly prepare if you want if you done. So, negative information has a high survival value.

What that means is that over time would be basically bread or evolved to our brain why to filter out

positive information and like prioritize negative information because it increases our likelihood of

survival, so and whether all like this I think it’s really easy like you can get a whole bunch of positive

feedback and people will say good, good. All these great things about you and bit sound just like one

bad thing and it’s very easy just because you have a brain works which is zero in on that thing and make

that you know just let that screw up your whole day or whole week.

Peter: That’s very interesting and it makes me feel better actually, because

then you could say well I don’t really have too much control over the fact that I feel negative about. I

do if feel about this negative situation or the way that I’m focusing in on it. But at the same time it’s

really interesting to think that you can have twenty people you know virtually or in person patch you

on the back and you get one person to say, you know, I don’t really like the way you did that and to

focus in on that one person were statistically it’s like such a small percentage of the feedback you’ve

received.

John McIntyre: I think … why follow that the psychology side of it is so interesting is

because you can’t change millions of uses that original. I just find understanding or I just find

something like you know … but you’re not going to change that like its hot water into the very … in

the brain. But what helps I think is when you go well hang on, that’s just its normal like and it’s going to

happen every single time and it’s never going to go and even get better at dealing with it, but that

general preference for negative information it’s always going to be there and this is why I like you know

like click it on the line or look at the you know procrastinating and we see some sort of crazy positive

story. it’s kind of interesting, always see some crazy others been a tsunami and you know whatever,

when much more likely to click on that and it’s always going to be that way, but the best bit or the

good bit is when you understand that you can … it’s just not brain like you know it’s just not brain but

prevailing negative information of a positive information and then you can sort of get some distance

from it.

Peter: Absolutely and then there’s always the idea too that if you’re pleasing

everyone, you’re not getting negative feedback from you know the crowd or the audience so-to-speak.

You’re probably not doing something right, because I mean you want to have a strong enough opinion

where you’re appealing to a very specific audience and everybody else this is … careful what you’re

doing, and so if you’ve got it, just watered down, like so watered down whether you’re messaging or

your product and you’re just kind of trying to please everyone, you please no one. Everybody’s heard

that phrase, but I think there is a lot of truth there and so it’s almost like I mean, if you like you said

once you understand it and you embrace it and you move on then you can say look you know I kind of

going after some of this negative feedback, because otherwise I’m not being specific enough. I don’t

have a strong opinion.

John McIntyre: Yeah, how’s this relate to the slow hustle?

Peter: Yeah, so I think one part of it is this manic-depressive nature and

understanding what triggers are and so how you get an example from really early episode of the

podcast. Friend of mine who’s working in downtown project with Tony Hsieh was talking about how, you

know, he realized kind of a pattern with himself. Every Wednesday morning he was kind of down and

then you start to procrastinate because he just didn’t want to like face kind of the rest of the week

ahead and realize that Monday and Tuesday he worked really, really hardly, kind of burned at both ends

and by Wednesday morning he really just had nothing left in his brain. He just couldn’t handle all this

stuff is getting thrown out on that. Maybe you could handle on a Monday or Tuesday and so what he did

is he scheduled a kind block on his counter recurring every Wednesday morning that he would take his

motorcycle and kind of drive up into the hills or travel into the mountains and just let himself unwind,

let his black brain kind of clear out and then when he came back it was kind of like he had another

Monday morning and he would get a lot more productivity and it and he would be a lot more happier

for it and still like you said once you identify that you are you know that you’re going to have some

negative feedback and then you’re going to maybe respond in a certain way figure, you figure out how

to handle it and some of it is just kind of like, you know, whether you have this meditative process of

riding your motorcycle or something like it, going for a run really early in the morning. Just finding

some of these scheduled recurring events on your calendars that you make some space to clear your

mind and do whatever it is that you need to do, have a more of a positive attitude to be able to deal

with the stresses that are thrown at you as an entrepreneur and I mean the reality to me is that the

more you can handle these tough situations, stressful situations the more productive and the more

successful you’re going to be because then you can look at them with a clear mind, handle them and

move on and get wrecked the rest of your day of rest your week. So, you know the other part of slow

hustle and the example that I’d like to give is that I’d like to know how someone who’s running 1,2,3,4

businesses, like to talk to a guy at a day. He has four boys and he had a company with almost 100

employees, doing 15 million a year in revenue and my question is always like how did you do all that,

do everything he needed to do that was … with that activity and still stayed married. How did you still

see your kids grow up? What were you doing, like what system did you have in place in order to make

sure that you were still living, to make sure that you still have your priorities straight. To make sure

that you didn’t look back in 20 years and wish you would have been a completely different, because

nobody in their right mind would be under deathbed and say I wish I worked more. I don’t know a single

person that would ever say that, because it’s ridiculous right. Everybody wants this usually spent more

time with their loved ones and so would that perspectives and understanding that you know situation

that truth of that, then what can you do now to make sure you don’t have those regrets moving forward

and so that for me is really the most important part. I have four 4 kids myself and so it’s like you know

I want to make sure that I realize what I’m giving up and so if I’m spending eight or ten or twelve hours

in the office today, am I going to be ok with the time value associated with that. Am I going to be ok

with what I traded for you know that the number of hours in the office and if the answer is no then

figure out how to get it right.

John McIntyre: Yeah, yeah, an interesting question here is because I think we

first get into this. It’s the desire for freedom and money and you know things like that, but then what

happens is you get to a point where I think you get a lot of what you want or you get that lot you want

and what’s next and like you know you keep doing it for money or you’re going to build a you know you

can make a million where you go build 10 million dollar business, this is what’s the next thing

and …with the family but what about someone who taking … divorce stunning couple of times, but

she put in position like that where it’s let’s assume like take someone who’s got a vision to do something

very specific in the world and … like that the money, but when they’re on the deathbed, they’re going

to wish that they spent more time with their kids or they’re going to wish that they help mankind to get

the mosque.

Peter: It’s a … point man. I think that you know I talked about you know

mosque actually quite a bit and have an article pulled up right in front of me about mosque and so it’s

interesting that you that you brought this up. Somebody to send it to me this morning and I think that

you know this dude an anomaly we all know that and we know that he gave up his family and his kids

essentially said he couldn’t chase these dreams of his and he’s doing some amazing things for Humanity.

There’s no doubt about it. The question that you know will be answered a long time from now hopefully

is whether or not he looks back and says yes I did all these amazing things for humanity and I am happy

or ok with the decision I made to give up family for this to chase this vision. I’m really interested to

know and that will be a long time from now I just stated and whether that’s the case or not. You know,

I don’t think there are too many mosques out there right, so unless you … mosque you had a huge

visions of autonomous vehicles and rockets template that they can lend themselves back or they took

off and hyper loop, then I’m guessing that you’d probably would be happier spending that time with

family and keeping that balance v/s letting everything else go to the wayside. What do you think John?

John McIntyre: I think that is really hard question to answer. I think this is very

much about like what’s that vision that you have for yourself. For me personally it’s a bit like I don’t

have a family. I don’t even in a relationship right now. So, maybe I’m not the best person to ask … kids

first then I have a better answer, but I wonder, for me personally, I think this is very much personal,

what I guess what’s important to you. I really struggle with this because some days I love to go up and

just devote myself to forget about family, forget about any of that and just go out to some crazy, crazy

stuff, but at the same time there are other days when you know I’m glad that I am living in Colombia. I

have this amazing lifestyle. I can travel around … work from anywhere where there is an internet

connection and a lot of people dream about and it’s a great life. I mean it’s a lot of fun, it’s freedom

and this autonomy, it’s amazing, but in me that I know that even right now and anyone who’s been

listening to me or reading some of the stuff that would notice about me. There is that pardon me it’s

like … more out there. It’s … like the whole thing like … it’s really like you know eventually settling

down having a family, having kids or is it some sort of worthy mission did you have? Is it a mix of both?

Is there absolute answer to it or does it really literally just depends on you as a person and are they

different? Is everyone going to be fulfilled by settling down and having a family because again if

even … I grew up in a family where my parents go to divorce when I was 7. So, I grew up in a broken

family and a lot of people … what that does is it teaches you or maybe at least makes you think or

wonder if them is really all cracked up to be and then I will obviously ended, obviously why people who

grew up like that, think like that, then I was really grew up in really great families. You should think

family is great and so I just look around also kid and look at other families and there is some really

happy family, really happy marriage. We got really deep right now, but it’s a real happy family, really

happy couples that day. But I think they’re often, I think to me … as far as I can … more often the

exception and the rule and so I wouldn’t want to get into relationship and have kids unless I was sure

that it was going to be one of those good relationships that I have seen people have, but I’m not. I think

a lot of people are like this as well. There is not a lot of faith in some of these old institutions which

then go as well if that institution is not as good as everyone thinks it is, or maybe there is other stuff

that I would like to think. Maybe that’s why I’m actually more curious and interested in some of the

stuff … is doing for example.

Peter: Yeah, absolutely anything you get on it you know a few good points

there is that you know what is meaningful to you and I think that you know you ask you know you made

a statement earlier, like may want to build a business when it … on a revenue, hit there and it’s like

what’s next and I think that you you’ve got to keep the perspective as far as like what is meaning for

you? Why are you going down this path again. Like, what’s the point right. Is it autonomy? Is it the

ability to travel and lived from anywhere? Is it so you can do humanity a greater good? Is so that your

family can be comfortable …what the goal was to begin with, right. My family and I, we travel quite a

bit. More about to take a you know a ten month stint around the country here in the U.S. and I get

folks that are you know they have all kinds of different opinions … actually going to chronicle the

process can be very interesting I think to watch from the outside, but you know some of the folks who

are like oh let’s can I cost a lot of money, right and then I’m going to cover all that in the podcast too

and actually there is cost very much at all, but you know let’s say cost X amount of dollars right and

then I asked folks like well would you take a 10 grand or 20 grand a year pay cut to be able to do this

and be able to work from anywhere and the reason I ask that question is because let’s say you had a

certain threshold of X amount of dollars you want to make per year right and then you surpass that,

most folks aren’t willing to back up on their salary in order to have certain freedoms even know they

really do want it right and so but if you had the prospective in remembering what the goal was to begin

with, well then given up a certain amount of revenue or salary, have you want to call it in order to

have this autonomy that everybody wants to have is pretty easy, but folks don’t, one thing is that they

forget what the goal was in the beginning and they don’t know kind of what’s meaningful to them, like

what’s most important and doesn’t have to be family. It could be autonomy. It could be you know maybe

one day you’re off and work for the peace core you know, but losing sight of that and just working for

work sake and working 40 hours a week because that’s what everybody does which is not a good answer

right and so just doing these things just because everybody else is doing them and forgetting why you’re

going on the path to begin with I think.

John McIntyre: yeah, I think like a lot of people don’t have that clarity and

when I woke him up at school which you know I went to grow up in Sydney went through electronics

selective schools not cool and everyone was expected ever know their graduates don’t you get started

you both need to get jobs all that stuff and I never want that and I don’t even know why not get my

unreachable water like deep down I don’t really know why I was like that and other people want but I

see that the in a lot of places especially in Western society what happening is the description of what

you meant to go to school and go to college get a job maybe start of minority startup script stories in

my head and I don’t know why it is that most people don’t question that story enough they did a little

bit when they’re 1892 kind of pushing are making an aggressive testosterone is waging what I love most

people used to settle down after a couple years of fighting and they come down and they just settle

into like this the story that society gives them and I don’t know why that is why do you hate it but not

really running like not willing to do what you say drop this out about you know be held remote work for

more freedom.

Peter: Well, I mean it’s funny, so I just got here said go and speak a few

weeks ago. He had, I mean had a lot of kind of … Education talk and you know for folks out there that

are pro you know higher and pro traditional schooling and I mean to offend, but the same time the idea

is that we’ve got this based in kind of an industrial sector and we ran into post-industrial society. So,

these systems are built for jobs. A job system that no longer exists right or it’s dying and I don’t know

how you want to look at it and so you know you go through middle school you know elementary school,

middle school, high school. Maybe get an MBA. You go get a job. You work you know forty five years you

retire that it doesn’t exist anymore right. Now people are still following that same path and so I think

that you know we’ve got the system that’s broken. The system is designed for a job you know a job

system that doesn’t exist right. It’s not there. It’s dying along with newspapers and magazines right and

so there is a Mark Twain quote that I love and it’s whenever you find yourself on the side of the

majority, it’s time to pause and reflect and I like it because when somebody says well you don’t do, you

know, what you want to do nobody does that, nobody does that. It’s not normal and make good on the

right path, because when I find myself just doing what everybody else is doing, living where everybody

else is living. Living how everybody else’s living that I know I’m doing something wrong. When, I say that

because that’d be the kind of like this you know like this herd mentality where he just like he’s gonna

do what everybody else is doing, you don’t really know why, but just what everybody does you. You get

married, you have kids, buy new house, new cars, you work a job you don’t really like and that’s what

everybody does and that’s for me is like okay, because you’re already doing that I need to figure

something else out and to me like another quote that I recently from a friend, a storyteller, he said you

know and it’s a quote from a …he said you know you find yourself, your character at a crossroads. Your

character has two options. You can go down the path that’s tried-and-true. You pretty much know how

it’s going to turn out or you can take your character down into the deep dark forest and you always

want to take your character into the deep dark forest. Sometimes it’s going to end up positives and

sometimes end up negative, but there’s only one way to find out and show that for me it’s kind of what

drives a lot of the decision-making process and in our household.

John McIntyre: Yeah it’s very interesting people don’t like talk about this whole like

the intelligent didn’t even know there are a lot of some people smarter than others and I think some

people have the capacity to question a lot more people 2012 done on you know and understand how

long with whatever the story is that given that I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that but should

I think it’s a fascinating thing that happened and what also happened to it you’ve got the same scripts

that that happened at every level of the game can I say I’m a run on a community right now online of

unfairness built but you never like to complain about you know when you when you first one already

complaining jokes about how you know when you thought the side of it and you tell your family your

pants whatever it was like a crazy person ever going to work with what the hell you doing you cannot

completely rule out a lot you know and entered its pressure from the outside that you not going to be

successful and even if you try like you know you should just take what you take with us a fortune and

I’ve noticed is you get the same similar the same old similar scripts happening in our culinary

community where one of them that I’ve seen if what happened to go through this approach to business

and make some money to get to a point that motivated by money so you know what connection to stop

thinking I used or they have you must or other people who were doing this much bigger stuff you know

doing so you know I thought of doing stuff that much bigger than that’s the thing that I can really

change the world and they see that I think I’m definitely into this group is why I like money like a lot of

fun having fun and not want interest in building a you know a one million dollar company chairman of

the company or you know something just something like that it seems like I I might as well just relax

and hang out at Columbia College the money not that interesting so that I can I let you know what

would you like to get involved in some crazy stuff value for example give me know what you end up

with you know co-founder and senior couple of law and Lebanon conversation face to face sometimes

there’s always a few people who already knows you’ve been through that period where people said they

couldn’t make it and they and they and they will tell you they can adapt the people who want to

question the roof attended community of it and they said I should stay small and you don’t you need to

make some money focus on going on a small businesses began to tell me a little bit of money before

you make a lot of money like this attitude you got to do this is gripping having the head to do

something small before you go into something big and I think it’s fascinating just like that script we all

have that apparent corruption on a parent or friend to their word is trying to start a business that

happened at every level of the game.

Peter: It does and I think that what happens in my opinion is especially when

you’re seeking advice from somebody that’s within your industry to have all this industry baggage and so

even folks that are super creative, I mean, I find myself in the situation as well, as like oh nobody does

it that way. You don’t even want to try that, because that’s just not going to work and it’s interesting to

me that you get advice for people that are outside of your industry. They will say why don’t you do this

way, which is a seemingly of seniors ridiculous question where somebody within the industry and he

would never ask, because they’ve got this baggage in the back of their mind that you’re nobody does it

that way and you just fill in the blank whatever the example is, but those crazy ideas are obscene or

absurd I should say, absurd questions are kind of weird most creative ideas come from and so I don’t

know what the process would be to get yourself out of that except for I always like to ask people

outside of the industry have absolutely no understanding of how it works and I like to throw my, run my

ideas pass them and see kind of what ideas they come up with. This happened to me the other day

where I was on the other side and that’s all. I know this might be ignorant question, so please don’t be

too critical, but what if you did it this way and everybody in the room was like holy shit man. We never

thought of that, like we never thought of it that way and it was only because everybody back the

certain product a certain way and they’ve just never seen another way and haven’t thought about it

that way. It’s very simple solution to a super difficult problem that they’ve been having and I just hadn’t

thought of it because they were so entrenched in it.

John McIntyre: Yeah he made me how to cook so how does this relate then to

circle back to the slow hostile what are you trying to achieve with this law for you really try to teach

people I know it’s a bit of that the manic depressive illnesses just how to deal with Vetted. What’s the

end result you’re moving towards?

Peter: Yeah, it’s a deep question man and there’s a bunch of different things

here I play. One is I don’t like the fact that you know it’s entrepreneurs, we only share the rosy side of

things. Like, you hear about people with massive exits. Hear about people getting lots of funding. You

very rarely hear about the difficult side of the business and I had someone the other day, they started a

company and six months later she comes up to me and said hey I just want you to know that I

understand. I understand a lot of stuff and a lot of the reasons you say things in a certain way and

enact certain way, because from the outside things looks rosy, … looks easy and now I understand like

all these other things that are really difficult that nobody even talks about and so one of the reasons

are the goals is to bring some of these things to light, not too depress people, but to make them feel

like they’re not the only ones out there that are having these issues and then inevitably through these

conversations in interviews that we have on the show, they can learn about ways on how to deal with

them, curbed them, keep them at bay as much as possible … like I mentioned earlier like the

motorcycle riding and the other side is just the loan asset-backed is just like you know keeping the

priority Street and figuring out these different mechanisms, a lot of them tactical on how to make sure

that you do just that, you know, that you take care yourself and your family and your friends and not

do so yourself and what’s most important than what’s meaningful in life. So, it’s a heavy answer. That’s

what I’ve got.

John McIntyre: Cool, well right on time. So, let’s wrap it up here. People want

to learn more about you or the podcast or if they want to get in touch with you or any product people

can buy, where is the best place to do all that?

Peter: Sure man, no miniaturization right now. This is like a passion project

so-to-speak. We’ll figure that other part of the business out later, but right now just this is some of my

most meaningful work and getting tweets and emails and texts from people saying they listen to an

episode and implemented similar strategies that we talked about made a real difference in their life

like that like those are the highlights of my day man. So, you can check out slowhustle.com. hit up

slow hustle on iTunes to download or subscribe @ Peterawad on PETERAWAD on twitter at slow hustle

on twitter for the show and Peter @ slowhustle.com … email me directly, I love chatting with people

man, so I can do that all day long.

John McIntyre: Peter thanks for coming on the show man.

Peter: John! Appreciate it man.