The following conversation was featured on Radio Abundance, Episode XXII: In the Arena. Michael Tubbs is the former Mayor of Stockton and the Founder of End Poverty in California. He is now running for Lieutenant Governor of California. Steve M. Boyle, Executive Director of YIMBY Democrats for America:

Hello, and welcome to Radio Abundance! I'm your host, Steve Boyle, the Executive Director of YIMBY Democrats for America. We are on location in-studio in Los Angeles today with two Radio Abundance Los Angeles co-hosts. I am here with Alex Melendez, a longtime activist with YIMBY Action. He founded YIMBY Latino and was a DNC delegate for the 2024 election.

Hey, Alex!

Alex Melendrez, LA-Based YIMBY Activist and Former National YIMBY Organizer:

Happy to be here!

Steve M. Boyle, Executive Director of YIMBY Democrats for America:

I am also with Zennon Ulyate-Crow. Zennon is likewise a young activist with YIMBY Los Angeles, the West Side Young Democrats, and now Abundance Network's Abundant Santa Monica. Zennon was the youngest commissioner in Santa Cruz's history.

Zennon Ulyate-Crow, Board Member for YIMBY LA:

Thank you so much. Appreciate it.

Steve M. Boyle, Executive Director of YIMBY Democrats for America:

Welcome! Welcome to Radio Abundance.

And, speaking of young folks, we've got a young folk here!

Well, I'm still young. I feel old with these guys. I felt old learning about your age the other day. I knew you were, when you were first elected, one of the youngest elected officials ever in the US at age 22. You've been the Mayor of Stockton. You are now running for the Lieutenant Governor of California.

You know, I have, even young politicians, a certain vision in my head that they're a little older. And then we were hanging out the other day, championing SB 79 in Sacramento. You had more to say to champion it than I did. I basically walked in and said, "I'm Steve Boyle with YIMBY Democrats, and I approve." But a friend of mine was there who said you went to college together. And he and I went to High School together. So that bummed me out because of imposter syndrome!

Michael Tubbs, thank you for joining us on Radio Abundance!

Michael Tubbs, Candidate for Lieutenant Governor of California:

Thank you so much for having me. It's fantastic to be here.

Steve M. Boyle, Executive Director of YIMBY Democrats for America:

Why are you running for Lieutenant Governor?

Michael Tubbs, Candidate for Lieutenant Governor of California:

Lieutenant Governor in California, in this moment, is a position that requires leadership, right? The job has very particular things you're responsible for.

You're on the UC and CSU board, one of the only people in the state on both. And what people don't know, particularly for this conversation, is that both the UC and CSU can build by-right. In the same way they build buildings and departments, they could build housing. They could build more student housing, as you probably know, going to UC Santa Cruz. They could also build more workforce housing.

The Lieutenant Governor also sits on the State Lands Commission and is responsible for being a good steward of our environment, but also making sure we're being thoughtful about when it is appropriate to actually build more housing.

And then, beyond that, it's just an incredible bully pulpit. It's the second-highest elected official in the fourth-largest economy in the world: an economy that we know isn't working for everyone, an economy that we know isn't building enough housing for everyone.

So, it just felt like the right opportunity to make an impact on the issues I care about and to make sure that California remains a beacon of what a multiracial democracy could look like: a society that's moving forward, not looking towards the past for inspiration, but looking at the future, embracing innovation and figuring out, how do you make sure we all do well?

It's just an amazing opportunity. So I'm excited to be in the race.

Steve M. Boyle, Executive Director of YIMBY Democrats for America:

So you begin with an interesting thread, right? Because we'll of course talk about policies around housing and YIMBYism and Abundance in California and how to make it possible for people to build -- the private market, citizens, community developers, anybody -- to build. And government's included!

And speaking of government, you've mentioned that, as Lieutenant Governor, you would have land and permission, which are two of the hardest things to get in order to build. So, if you did become Lieutenant Governor, what would you want to do with that land?

Michael Tubbs, Candidate for Lieutenant Governor of California:

I'm going to be the most annoying regent of all time, insofar as I think, (A) we have to leverage the thousands of acres of the UC and CSU system. We know that students need housing, that janitors need housing, that adjunct faculty needs housing, that the people who work at universities need housing, and really making it a priority for that system to build, build, build.

It's not a 10-year project, it's not a 20-year project. It's a necessity. Not just because I love housing, but because there's a real need. Throughout our system, from the UC level to the CSU level, even the community college level, the biggest need is housing. It's student housing.

You have people taking longer to graduate because they can't find housing. You have people not graduating because they can't find housing. You have people graduating while living in cars or couch surfing because they can't find housing. So that's a manageable problem, a worthy problem, and one that I will use the bully pulpit in the position of trustee to really push and advocate for, because my experience in government has taught me: nothing just happens, and nothing happens easily. Yeah. You always have to push. You always have to get on people's nerves. You always have to be annoying.

That's the only way anything, particularly important things, get done.

Zennon Ulyate-Crow, Board Member for YIMBY LA:

I'll put some numbers to that as well. In the UCs, 7% of students are currently experiencing homelessness. In the CSUs, it's about 15%. In the community colleges, it's about 22%.

I actually founded the Student Homes Coalition in California, which worked on passing student housing legislation at the state level. We've passed five out of seven bills for the past three years.

Michael Tubbs, Candidate for Lieutenant Governor of California:

Well, thank you for your work. Amazing.

Steve M. Boyle, Executive Director of YIMBY Democrats for America:

You know, something we're very familiar with in the Bay Area is students being seen as pollution. There's just been some good reforms and clarifications to CEQA, but it was quite vague about what was pollution, so people could say that students were pollution, young people were pollution, noise is pollution, parties are pollution – genuinely – to block student housing and to block low-income housing and affordable housing.

I talked with Jon Lovett, the former speechwriter for Barack Obama and Host of Pod Save America. We talked in the fall. He said a big radicalizing moment for him was to see, in the East Bay, student housing be thwarted because "students were pollution."

This story has even made it across the pond! I was in London two weeks ago, meeting at Parliament and having lunch with a member of Parliament and a sort of a world-crossing academic, and the academic, a guy named Alain Bertaud, as we were telling stories of NIMBYism around the world, he started talking about us not being able to build student housing in California.

So, it is legendary, this failure and betrayal, and I'm excited that you might take a stab at fixing it.

Michael Tubbs, Candidate for Lieutenant Governor of California:

Yes, sir!

Alex Melendrez, LA-Based YIMBY Activist and Former National YIMBY Organizer:

I hate to say this, but students do breed CO2. Just saying!

Steve M. Boyle, Executive Director of YIMBY Democrats for America:

Yeah, you've got to watch out for that!

Michael Tubbs, Candidate for Lieutenant Governor of California:

I think, also, what's lost in the conversation is, in addition to students, it's also the people who work at the universities who need housing. Our universities are some of the biggest employers in the state. Just like we require or want other big employers to build housing near the job site, the CSU and UC system has to do the same thing, even at the community college level.

Alex Melendrez, LA-Based YIMBY Activist and Former National YIMBY Organizer:

I actually had a brief stint where I almost became a community college trustee in my home district back in San Mateo County, and I ended up earning the endorsement of the faculty union because of this specific, particular thing.

A lot of their part-time professors were facing a lack of housing opportunities and the fact that a lot of them had to drive into this very wealthy district that had an excess of money and land.

I will say, that district was the first educational district in the county to build housing. So, they were starting to work on that, but that was also one of their primary issues. And the reason why I earned their endorsement was because I was a strong advocate for wanting to build more housing so that these people can live here and do the work that they were happy to do for students.

Steve M. Boyle, Executive Director of YIMBY Democrats for America:

And when we talk about teacher housing and janitor housing-- this is all levels, right? – it's something I've seen even in the suburbs I grew up in. They’ve tried to build affordable teacher housing, and the community can go, "I don't like it. It's too many stories. The homes are too close together. I don't want it." And, suddenly, you're saying students can't live and teachers can't live.

And, by the way, this isn't just charity for students and teachers. Universities are the engines of culture and economic development and innovation. The companies of the future, the jobs of the future, the game changing research of the future -- it all happens at universities.

And, I'll just say, I think universities already are a little bit of a model for the cities we want and the neighborhoods we want, right? They’re walkable neighborhoods where you live by people you know and where there is intellectual stimulation and social events.

I think for a lot of the loneliness crisis and a lot of the separation of our society and a lot of what people want when they move to cities, a lot of what young people want, but also elderly people, too, all want a place you can walk and be with anything you need to get and all the people you love and stuff to do. And I think, we're just asking to let students live, let teachers live, and let's all live in our little universe of universities.

Alex Melendrez, LA-Based YIMBY Activist and Former National YIMBY Organizer:

Americans pay a lot of money to see this stuff and go overseas to Europe.

Steve M. Boyle, Executive Director of YIMBY Democrats for America:

Well, and not just Europe, but Disneyland! We're sitting here in Los Angeles. I'm going to hit this so many times and in every interview because: Look, you can – in California – build dense neighborhoods, walkable neighborhoods, abundant public transportation, and mixed-use buildings. You don't have to do setbacks. You can have cafes on the street corner and tree lined streets. You can do all of this as long as nobody can stay the night and there are roller coasters!

But, if you do, people are willing to fly across the country and the world and pay hundreds of dollars a day for: not a room to sleep in. Right? And some of it is so that the kids can see Mickey Mouse, and some of it is to ride the rollercoasters. But I think there's quite a lot of people there that are young-ish, middle-aged, that don't have kids – I don't think they're there for Mickey Mouse!

I think we just like that stuff. And I think we should all be able to have it.

Zennon Ulyate-Crow, Board Member for YIMBY LA:

I mean, literally, aside from Disneyland itself, you have Downtown Disney, which is a walkable shopping mall attached to Disney that people go to just walk around.

Alex Melendrez, LA-Based YIMBY Activist and Former National YIMBY Organizer:

This is so funny because Disneyland actually has a City Hall. My favorite joke every time I go is, "I'm here to make a public comment to Mr. Mouse. Can you build some more, please?"

Steve M. Boyle, Executive Director of YIMBY Democrats for America:

All right, enough Mickey Mouse. Back to Michael Tubbs!

Michael, what else does the Lieutenant Governor do?

Michael Tubbs, Candidate for Lieutenant Governor of California:

The Lieutenant Governor is also the Acting Governor when the Governor's gone and out of state. The Lieutenant Governor also is the emissary for foreign trade, which before was more of a symbolic role, but, given this current administration’s tariffs and the ways in which the United States' trade position with partners is always subject to change, that's going to be a real role to make sure that California uses its market capture to continue to do things that benefit the economy and that allow people to build and allow people to prosper right here in California.

Steve M. Boyle, Executive Director of YIMBY Democrats for America:

You know, sometimes, I've thought of the Lieutenant Governor as kind of the Vice Presidential role for a state Governor. But, in this case, it's your own election. You don't run on a ticket with the gubernatorial candidate.

Michael Tubbs, Candidate for Lieutenant Governor of California:

It's a separate election. And it creates, again, a huge platform.

I think what I've learned, particularly in the last six months, is that folks need leaders that are going to level with them and explain to them what's happening and what's going on. How is this working? What are the blocks? Why isn't this done? Why hasn't that been passed?

A big part of how I've envisioned the role will be doing that – being an explainer-in-chief – and also doing stuff that most Lieutenant Governors don't do – like testifying on every single bill – I think is important. And I've done that already as a candidate. I've testified on the two most, quote unquote, "controversial" housing bills this cycle, one by Buffy Wicks around CEQA reform and one from Scott Wiener around transit-oriented development. Not because it's in my job description, and not because Lieutenant Governor is the authority, but because leadership demands action. It's the right thing to do to make it really clear to people, “no, this is not about some abstract notions of right and wrong or an adherence to a rigidity that doesn't really work for people anymore. This is about: we have a problem. We don't have enough housing. We need every tool in the toolbox to build more housing. “

And, when those things come up, I will – I'm doing it as a candidate, but even more so as Lieutenant Governor – I will be very bullish about saying "this is where I stand. This is why it needs to happen," and exerting some force and pressure because I think that's the only way California and Sacramento actually move. You have to push it. Einstein said – or was it Newton? – that "an object at rest tends to stay at rest." You have to – we have to – push, and it's going to take leadership to do that.

Steve M. Boyle, Executive Director of YIMBY Democrats for America:

You know, we ran into each other while you were testifying for SB 79 for transit-oriented development in Sacramento. I wonder if you can testify a little here?

Can you tell us about those two bills and what you said about them and why you believe in them?

Michael Tubbs, Candidate for Lieutenant Governor of California:

Well, the Buffy Wicks bill on CEQA reform, the argument was, “there's nothing Progressive about process in and of itself. There's nothing forward-thinking or Democratic about delay. There's nothing enlightened about not getting the thing done” And we know that nothing is sacrosanct, at least in my view. Nothing is untouchable. And CEQA has its uses! CEQA is not altogether terrible. But, we do know that CEQA has been used and weaponized in a terrible way as it comes to delaying and denying the ability to build housing.

Buffy's bill was a simple one. It was like, “let's, for things that, like infill projects, have already gone through the CEQA process or the general plan, that land doesn't have to go through the CEQA process again for another project.” Basically, “if the squirrels are going to be okay in the general plan, they'll be okay again.” It’s the same land that's already been looked at. It’s like, “Why? Why be redundant?” Particularly with the fact that we have a crisis! Particularly that we don't have enough housing.

And then Scott Wiener's bill is around transit-oriented development. We know that our transit systems need ridership. We know that in LA and the Bay Area, we need more people to ride these public utilities, (A).

(B) We know that transit-oriented development provides an opportunity for a lot of infill, dense, and multi-level housing, right?

And, (C) We know there's a demand for it, that young people, and all people, have no problem living next to the BART, have no problem living next to the Metro, and have no problem living near the transportation hubs.

We also know there's a climate impact when folks aren't able to live next to transit and folks have to commute for hours. When I was mayor of Stockton, we led the state and the nation in the number of “super commuters.” 10% of our population commutes three hours a day or more for work. And it's because the housing that people could afford is in Stockton, but the jobs were in the Bay Area, and the housing wasn't there near the BART station.

So, Senator Wiener's Bill will allow for that to happen. That one's working its way through the process. I'm hopeful that our friends and the legislators see that now is the time to think a little bit differently. Now is the time to have constructive dialogue with some of our friends. And now is the time to really show the folks in California that we are not just saying that it's a problem, but we understand that we have tools that can make that problem more solvable.

And, on the Scott Wiener bill, it's a triple win. It's good for the environment. It's good for transit ridership. And it's good to increase the number of units of housing to get us towards the goal of the amount of housing we actually have to build for the people who live in California to be able to stay living here in California.

Steve M. Boyle, Executive Director of YIMBY Democrats for America:

Thank you for bringing up climate change and environment and the climate change implications of building homes and the climate change implications of CEQA reform.

CEQA stands for, what, California Environmental Quality Act, right? I like to say, when Trump says "I'm making America Great Again," we know that's b******t. He's destroying American greatness. When Republicans say, "this is the One Big Beautiful Bill," we know that's b******t. There's nothing beautiful about it. So, why, when you hear about the “California Environmental Quality Act,” do you assume it's about “the environment” or “quality?” Because it's in the name?

Really! I feel like a lot of why we come to this movement, why we come to Abundance, is because we grew up as Progressives wanting to fight climate change, seeing this existential threat, this planetary emergency, and all the intransigence and denial on the Right that is poisoning our world and holding us back from thriving in the atmosphere we deserve.

And so I say, “How dare you, Democrats, say that climate change is a planetary emergency and then let climate change deniers in Texas lap us on building green energy? How dare you say that climate change is perhaps the most important issue in the world, but also make sure that people can't live where they can walk to work and to each other, and instead they have to live three hours away and commute by gasoline-emitting and plastic-shedding vehicles three hours back and forth both ways?”

That doesn't take care of people! It doesn't take care of the environment!

Alex Melendrez, LA-Based YIMBY Activist and Former National YIMBY Organizer:

Can I mention high-speed rail, or is that a third rail we don't want to touch right now?

Zennon Ulyate-Crow, Board Member for YIMBY LA:

I think you can keep us on track!

Alex Melendrez, LA-Based YIMBY Activist and Former National YIMBY Organizer:

Train puns!

I mean, that's the ultimate example. Unfortunately, I hate to say it, we've become – California has become – a little bit of a punching bag for its inability to get it off the ground.

But I can't think of something that would've been better for the environment than having high-speed rail where people would be able to commute across California at a rapid speed. And that basically had a death by a thousand cuts. And a lot of that was due to delays and environmental regulations. You can't even describe better irony than that.

Zennon Ulyate-Crow, Board Member for YIMBY LA:

CEQA as a law – people forget this – the entire point of the law is to analyze what the difference from the status quo is. That's it!

It just says, “how is this different from what's there right now?” Take an oil refinery – if you want to build a solar power plant, that's going to require a CEQA report, because that's changing from the status quo.

And climate change, the way we respond to it – the only way you can respond to it is by changing literally the entire way that we live and operate in our society today.

Steve M. Boyle, Executive Director of YIMBY Democrats for America:

Michael, I want to get to you and your background in Stockton and Universal Basic Income in a second. But I'm curious how this all stacks up in terms of the rest of your field?

This is in California. And it's early. The election's in a year. We're well away from the primaries. But in California, you're running against Democrats. How are they on these issues? How do you fit in there?

Michael Tubbs, Candidate for Lieutenant Governor of California:

I know, in my race, it's been clear to me – and it’s part of the reason why I decided to run – that being a Democrat is necessary but not sufficient. In California, that phrase almost has no meaning. Like, "I'm a Democrat." What does that mean? Like, what do you fight for? What have you done, and what are you prepared to do?

So, I think the big differentiator is that I'm a person of action. And when you have action, you make some people upset. But I'm not afraid of making people upset for the right things. I'm not afraid of disagreeing with my friends on things that are important, like ending poverty or building more housing.

I think that really, over the course of a year, people see that's the big difference. We can all say the right things. We all have ChatGPT. Everyone knows what to say to the right audience. But it's really about, "What are you going to do?" And then, "What have you done? And what are you doing while running?"

I just think, on those three dimensions, there's no contest between me and my opponents.

Steve M. Boyle, Executive Director of YIMBY Democrats for America:

Well, let's use your own words to segue to your background then. I'm thinking about your time in Stockton and your work on ending poverty in California.

Michael Tubbs. What do you fight for? What have you done? And what are you going to do?

Michael Tubbs, Candidate for Lieutenant Governor of California:

One of my favorite quotes is from the movie The Color Purple, when the character of Celie says, "All my life, I had to fight."

That really encapsulates the energy I bring to politics. I'm really fighting for a government that works for everyone. Truly: a government that simply works for everyone.

I think what gives me hope is that we have so many examples of the government working for some people. Like, very well. This terrible bill that the Trump administration passed is a beautiful example of the government working for some people, for the billionaires and all the folks that got their tax cut. The people not on Medicaid, that bill works great – "bigly," as he would say – for them.

And it's illustrative that, no, we can make this thing work for some people. And my job is to try to make it work for all people. When I was in Stockton, I fought for a city government that was functional, a city government that could deliver services, and a city government that provided a baseline level of security and opportunity for people.

We reduced homicides by 40%. We reduced shootings by 30%. We went from bankruptcy to the second-most fiscally healthy city in the state. We created a universal scholarship program. So, even to this day, every single kid who graduates with a 2.0 is guaranteed a scholarship to a trade school. If they want to be a beautician or a welder or a barber, at a two year school or a four year school, with the idea being that Stockton is #99 in the top 100 cities in terms of college attainment, so to grow our economy, we have to let our young people know there's an expectation for you to do something after high school. And we're also going to give you the resources to do it.

We did the first guaranteed income program in the country while I was Mayor in Stockton, primarily because I'm just obsessed with this idea that, in a country and a state that has so much wealth, a state that has so much creativity, a state that's the fourth-largest economy in the world, why are so many people poor? Why is poverty so pervasive? Why are so many people unsheltered? And why are we okay with that?

And the idea is: let's test something. Let's test and see if a small amount of cash provides enough of a shock absorber to allow people to deal with financial volatility and also allow people to actually build a foundation: to buy a floor, buy boots, and then buy straps they could pull themselves up with.

Since being Mayor and Councilperson, I've continued that fight with End Poverty in California, where I've gone up and down the state in communities listening to folks and trying to figure out why it is that in a state so Liberal, in a state that creates everything from the technology we use to the food we eat to the culture we consume, why are so many people who are powering the state poor? Why are there so many people who are working themselves literally to death who can't afford housing? And what's the mismatch between our rhetoric and what we do?

We also have scaled Guaranteed Income across the country. So now there's 80 pilots happening across the country, and over half a billion government dollars have gone out to over 20,000 Americans from cities and counties I've helped all across the country to pilot this idea of a Guaranteed Income.

Those are some of the things I've done. Those are some of the things I'm fighting for. And then all the unsexy legislation stuff, like attaching myself to bills that may seem controversial.

And maybe that's why sometimes I get in trouble. It doesn't seem controversial to me. It's like, “this is like common sense. It's very simple, actually! This is not complicated!” Like, “build more housing!”

But even in my time as mayor, I remember one of the biggest fights I had was when I went to end the golf course subsidy because we had an issue with affordable housing. I didn't even say "build housing on the golf course" (which I probably should have if I was going to get all that heat!). I didn't think I could do all that. But I said we could take that money and create an affordable housing trust so that we could help projects pencil out.

We streamlined the permit center. We built more units in the four years I was mayor than in any time pre-2008 Great Recession. And a lot of it was just having an orientation towards "Yes" and not letting -- and projects would sometimes almost die at the council, and I would call the developers and the unions into my office, and we would negotiate there and be, like, “no, this is too important. We need this downtown project, and we need it to be mixed use, and we do need some affordable units. Let's figure out a number we can get to, everyone.” And no one walked away hella happy all the time, but everyone walked away feeling like, “okay, the project's not dead. There's something happening.”

So, that's some of the things I fight for and some things I plan to fight for.

And sorry for the very long answer.

Steve M. Boyle, Executive Director of YIMBY Democrats for America:

I loved it. I'm going to go back to the very beginning because you mentioned some huge achievements and gains in public safety. I think public safety is on the minds of a lot of California voters right now. And, in the coming years, it's going to be on the minds of a lot of American voters looking at California on public safety to evaluate Democratic leadership.

We saw in the last election – and California's going to vote blue at the end of the day – but we saw a ton of voters across California – across San Francisco, across Los Angeles – vote red, especially people of color, a lot of times talking about issues around public safety and public disorder. It does seem like people of color, most of all, are caught between under-policing and over-policing. And, as a result, Democratic policy makers are, too:

How do we rightly say that we cannot have a world where police can abuse their authority without accountability and kill and maim black men and families with overly aggressive uses of authority and violence?

And then, in order to curb that and resolve that, it seems like we then went in the direction of what you might call a toleration of extreme and degrading disorder.

And, it turns out, both hurt people. And both hurt the most vulnerable people most of all, whether you are suffering from state violence, or whether you are suffering from the anarchy of neglect and the threats from individual citizen violence around you.

So, man, Michael Tubbs: as a Mayor, as a black man, and as somebody who – I mean, those were huge, what you talking about, 30% reductions in some of those crimes and violence. I mean, this is incredible – how did you achieve that, and what should California learn from you?

Michael Tubbs, Candidate for Lieutenant Governor of California:

Well, first, let me say, I think part of it was proximity. It was personal to me. I ran for office for City Council because my cousin was murdered in Stockton. So this idea of safety and public safety was not theoretical. It was like, “how do you make this not happen again?”

I'm 34. My father's been incarcerated for the past 33 years. So, in terms of understanding the carceral system and the impacts of that, I just knew, particularly, as you mentioned, as a black man, that part of my role would be making sure that we're responsible and smart and data-driven with how we actually solve a really real problem.

I think the biggest insight I had was from doing ride-alongs with my police officers and realizing that they were called upon to do so many things that they're not trained to do. I spent 10 hours in my first ride-along, and, in the course of 10 hours, we were therapists, we were relationship counselors, we were parents trying to help kids get to school. We were a jobs program. Someone called us because someone stole $5 worth of earrings from the thrift store. We were mediators. And then, we were detectives because someone was shot, but we got there after the shooting. So, we were detectives. And I was like, “oh my gosh, you are called upon for” -- We were mental health clinicians.

I was like – very rarely you get to do police work. You're doing all these other things. And that's frustrating, because (A) you don't have the training for it, so you're frustrated, and (B) the public's frustrated because we're not getting the results we want to see on these other issues. And you can't really focus on what I define as actual police work.

So, with that insight, I was like, “okay, how do we make sure that (A) we don't use police for everything, but we actually have other tools in our toolbox to deal with other problems, so you don't use a hammer for what the wrench does?” You don't use a screwdriver for what the hammer does. We use police officers for everything, and that's just not what they're supposed to do or what they're good at.

So, we invested in and we were one of the first cities in the state to do the alternatives to policing police response for mental health. Because what we found was we had a huge problem with officer-involved shootings. My brilliant police chief, Eric Jones – we looked at the data and we felt like, “oh my gosh, 70% of the folks who have been shot, often fairly, by a police department, had a mental illness. They were in psychosis. They were schizophrenic. They were bipolar.” Which doesn't mean they weren't a threat or there wasn't real fear, but it does mean that our officers weren't trained to be mental health professionals. And what they saw was what they were trained to see: a threat that needed to be neutralized.

So, we overhauled our training of that, but then we also partnered with our hospital systems to provide first responders who are social workers and mental health clinicians who go out before police and try to diffuse situations. And then, if they can't, and it's a real violent threat, then officers come in. And we led the state in the decline of officer involved shootings in 2019, in part because of that work.

We looked at the data around shootings, and we treated gun violence as a public health issue and said that, you know what, shootings don't happen everywhere in the city; they happen in very particular parts of the city. Parts of the city that oftentimes have no access to transit, no jobs, opportunity, legacies of redlining, the list goes on.

We're a city of 320,000 people. It was 84 guys who are most likely to be the victims and perpetrators of violent crime at any time. Meaning that, it's hard to devise a solution for 300,000 people, but I said, “we can put our heads together and think about these 84 guys. Like, we all have more than 84 friends on Facebook. Like, that's manageable and bite-sized.”

And then what we found, upon further research, was that these 84 guys weren't mysteries to us. They weren't surprises. These were folks who had been arrested eight times on average. So we had been in communication with them, and the tools we had weren't sufficient because they were still shooting, but we knew who they were. They were mostly on probation and parole, meaning they had mandated conversations with someone from the government once a month, but were still shooting. 50% were homeless and couch surfing, 60% food insecure and hungry, and almost 100% percent were shooters that had also been shot at. This conflated the narrative: they were perpetrators, but they were also victims too.

And just really thinking very clearly around, “okay, what are the services and opportunities folks need?” And then, giving folks that chance and saying, “well, hey, look, we know life sucks. We know things aren't fair. We understand that, and here's an opportunity, and I want you to take advantage of that. If you take advantage of it – we're resource scarce, but because you're such a priority – you don't have to wait in line. You can be the first one to get your tattoo removed. You're the first one on the list.” Which pissed some people off! I'm like, “it's a priority! Like, we have to do that!” If we don't have enough resources, let's be smart.

But then, secondly, saying, “the Police Chief and the DA, they're not going anywhere. Jails aren't going anywhere. In fact, they have a mandate to be more aggressive because the violence is unacceptable. So, if you don't take advantage of these resources, I can longer can help you.”

So, it was that messaging and consistency, I think, that helped in being very data-driven.

But also, and I think this goes with all the work overall, it was just being very comfortable with saying that the status quo isn't working. And because it doesn't work, as a leader, you have a responsibility to make it better. Which might mean challenging convention. Which might mean taking some risk. Which might mean pushing back on the thinking because that got us to this point.

Because the thinking that created the problem is not going to be the thinking that solves the problem. And, in that case, the thinking was "lock everyone up". And: “but yeah, we tried that! So maybe that's not the solution. Maybe there's other things we can do.”

And what we saw is that not everyone changed, and not everyone took advantage, but a 40% reduction in back to back years? To date, that’s the only two years this century that Stockton has had less than 40 homicides was 2018 and 2019.

It worked. But it was a lot of work.

Alex Melendrez, LA-Based YIMBY Activist and Former National YIMBY Organizer:

One of the reasons I actually became a big fan of yours in this particular arena is because you always seem to focus on outcome-based solutions: how do we get the most efficient policy to impact the most amount of people, and how can we be as effective as possible?

I feel like this actually ties into YIMBY Democrats for America pretty well: the focus on anti-poverty and the efforts to provide a future and a vision for America that focuses on an affordable living space where everybody can have their own economic development to leave poverty can be found in the most outcome-driven solutions.

That's why I was really happy to see that you were advocating for some of these housing supply bills. Because one of the other things involving poverty, crime, and mental health is a lack of stable housing.

I've heard so many stories. I have this one in particular of this old, black, veteran woman at the opening of an affordable housing complex. It was back in 2019, and it was this affair where a bunch of politicians and government people were patting themselves on the back like it was something to celebrate. And this lady, totally unscripted, took the mic and was describing how having a stable place to call home made her feel human again.

She also described how she's had first, second, third, fourth chances, and what she needed all along was a stable place to call home. That's one of the visions I feel like we can provide with more housing abundance in America, and I feel like that ties in with a lot of the anti-poverty work you've done.

Michael Tubbs, Candidate for Lieutenant Governor of California:

Well, I remember when my mom bought her first home. She was 26 years old. Back then, housing was affordable, so she bought it for like $150,000. It wasn't huge. It was a three-bedroom, two-bathroom in Stockton.

We watched it be built from the ground up. We would drive by it every day, and she would talk to the contractor. Just seeing sort of the pride and the sense of not– just “somebody-ness” – but the sense of, "I'm part of community. I have a stake in this. I have some ownership."

Home ownership may not be for everyone, but everyone should have the chance to make that decision for themselves. And that decision shouldn't be made by supply. The baseline we provide is supply, but then also, I was reading some research the other day about how, for folks our age, between 35 and 44, home ownership has decreased by 10% compared to the previous generation at our age, and the average age of a first-time homeowner is so much older today than it was 20 years ago.

We know that, in this country, so much of wealth – not just for you, but for your children and your children's children, or for a business you may have – is tied up in home equity. And once you get on, it's an onramp. Usually that goes up.

But, if you can never get on the ramp, you have no-- it's like a game being played, and you can't even get in. You can't even try. And I think that's just fundamentally unfair, and that, as Democrats, as Progressives – however we want to label ourselves – the job has to be not just giving people hope in the abstract, but hope in reality.

Like, “look, we can't guarantee an individual outcome. We can work towards some policy outcomes and hopefully you will have an opportunity to own a house. Or, hell, before that, an opportunity to afford rent! And an opportunity to stay in California.”

And – I'll be quiet after this – but I think my biggest fear is that, if we don't get as serious – and you all are serious – if elected leaders don't get as serious as you all in the next decade with all of the changes and disruptions that are going to happen in this economy, California won't lead. Because the leaders will have to go and move to Texas. And move to Florida. And move to Nevada. And move to all these places we say we're better than.

But, to your point earlier, it's places where a recent college grad can afford housing. Where a recently-married person with a kid can buy a house with a little bit of space. And I think, oftentimes, our policy-makers are so divorced from that experience because they own their homes!

They've owned their homes for a long time. They remember when a down payment was $20,000. Their point of reference is a world that no longer exists. I think it's our job to speak truth to power and push us to create those realities now, for us and for our generation.

Steve M. Boyle, Executive Director of YIMBY Democrats for America:

You know, we will talk in a moment about some of those big economic shifts that are coming. I am very interested to learn more about how you evaluate your experiments with Guaranteed Income, what you've learned since, what you've learned from scholarships since, how you think about it as a policy matter.

And, of course, that's going to have a lot of relationship to what might come from Artificial Intelligence, which is unpredictable. There are scenarios in which Guaranteed Income becomes much more relevant, much more quickly…

But I do want to, while we're on this topic of housing and your background – some of the stories you've told about your childhood, and the stirring eloquence with which you've talked about how scarcity impoverishes and immiserates people – And prevents people, families, and entire cultures from building wealth and changing the trajectory of their families. And takes people who have jobs but are precarious and sends them to the street. And, once you're on the streets, it's very tough to pull yourself back up, right? –

We know that, in scarcity, people who are vulnerable and marginalized are the first to lose out in that auction-like bidding war that takes place for those scarce few available resources.

But, how, when you talk to other black men, black families, and a community that has suffered from "urban renewal" and displacement and erasure and obliteration and is afraid that that cycle is continuing and repeating with corporate development and that new supply will not be for them but to the eradication of them, how do you have conversations about gentrification, housing, supply, and construction?

Michael Tubbs, Candidate for Lieutenant Governor of California:

I think it starts with just being real. Gentrification is real. Like, it has happened. It is happening. It does happen, and it does disproportionately impact black people.

I think it also takes this understanding of history, of how it hasn't been 300 years – it's been, what, 50 years? – since the Fair Housing Act. It hasn't been a long time in which black people and other minorities have actually even been able to participate in a housing market. And, even in that participation, they still had to deal with redlining and still had to deal with being denied loans at 2-3 times the rates of other homeowners with the same credit scores, and still having their properties appraised lower when they're ready to sell.

So, I think it is a conversation that has to be multilayered and multidimensional to really get to the totality of the issue.

I think that's one thing. I think, on the gentrification front, part of why gentrification happens, though, is because there is a lack of supply. Like, part of the issue we have is that, even if your home or your grandmother's home accrues so much value and you sell your South LA home for $1.3 million and you make $700k – you make some money off it – that's still not enough for you to buy another house in the community! Because there's not enough supply. You'll make some money, but then you'll have to leave and move.

So, I think part of it is thinking through a multi-layer solution that supply has to be a part of, so that there's a place for that capital to go in the community if folks choose to make money off their house, as they have a right to, but want to stay nearby to where they are.

When I was Mayor, I would always talk about how – and I could be wrong on this, but – it seemed like the assumption of gentrification is that this land is more valuable if you are no longer there. That the land has value detached from you, and, as soon as you go, we can bring the value up.

And I was always interested in saying, "No! Like, let's get nice things. Let's bring in coffee shops. Let's bring in all those things, and let's bring more people in without the displacing people who are already there.”

Which, again, goes back to my answer, which is: Build more. Build denser. Build, build, build.

But there has to be more supply. I think that's the first bulwark against gentrification. And then, we have to be creative about solutions about first-time home-buyer down payment assistance, rent – programs that will help.

We have all these conversations about the integrity and the character of neighborhoods, but that seems to only be applied when rich white people don't want folks of color in their community, or don't want lower-income people in their community.

But, we could take some of those same principles and think about, “how do we – in the midst of change, in the midst of new residents coming in – what are the backstops? What are the policies and what are the things we could create to allow for some of the culture and character of those neighborhoods to stay similar and to allow those residents to be allowed to stay?”

So, it's a supply issue, but it's also a conversation about some level of rent balance, right? So that you folks aren't just all of a sudden dealing with hundreds of dollars of increases in rent out of nowhere because Stanford grads like me want to move into South LA.

So, long answer! I think it has to be measured and balanced by taking into account what I heard in the earlier conversation: that we're talking about people, not buildings. We're talking about community, not rooms. And that the best communities are those that are diverse. The best communities are those that have a mix of old and new. The best communities aren't those that go through rapid change and rapid change-like facelifts.

I think what draws people to certain communities is the history. It’s the culture. It’s the people. It's the food. And the prices!

Steve M. Boyle, Executive Director of YIMBY Democrats for America:

Yeah,at the risk of being reductive and corporate: diversity is an amenity! It is nice to be around culture and history and new things and interesting people!

Michael Tubbs, Candidate for Lieutenant Governor of California:

Totally.

Steve M. Boyle, Executive Director of YIMBY Democrats for America:

And I think your framing here around "we can have nice things," but also "you can have nice things," is really important. The idea that it isn't a choice between preserving these cultural neighborhoods in amber while they slightly decay and freezing them versus sweeping them up for the white people. The perks and parks and dogs of gentrification should be for the black people that live there, too! They should have nice things and new amenities! And that culture shouldn't be displaced, but it also shouldn't be frozen. It should be growing and thriving, and there should be bigger, taller, more vibrant, wealthier, black neighborhoods.

Michael Tubbs, Candidate for Lieutenant Governor of California:

I think South LA, – when I first moved here, I moved to Hyde Park – I think South LA, although not perfectly, has done a pretty good job with all the development coming in with the Olympics and the Metro rail and the airport expansion.

I think it's because the leaders were intentional. Adecade ago, Marqueece Harris-Dawson, Holly Mitchell, Karen Bass, and all the leaders of South LA had a conversation about: “these investments are coming down the pipeline. We can't stop, quote unquote, ‘the market,’ but what can we do to make sure our folks are okay.”

So then, there was mass public education, and they let people know what was coming and about that amount of impact, value, and why it may be a good idea not to sell, at least immediately. They created Destination Crenshaw and made it so that you don't just go through Crenshaw: they made Crenshaw a destination with art installations and history and storytelling so that, as folks are going from the new Metro line through Crenshaw, they're not just going through, but they're stopping and being part of the community. They help the small businesses around. So, “get ready for this influx!”

There was a strategy around: “we want this investment, but how do you make sure that we mitigate harm from the investment?” And I think that's what's required. Being strategic, being thoughtful, and thinking about all the good that can come with new investment but also how to mitigate harm.

Steve M. Boyle, Executive Director of YIMBY Democrats for America:

So, how do you educate people and bring them along for the ride?

Michael Tubbs, Candidate for Lieutenant Governor of California:

I tell people all the time: “just look at South LA.” It’s different today than it was 20 years ago, but I would say south LA still has the feel of traditional South LA. You still see Latino people. You still see black people. And you see more white people, but it has had an intention about keeping its character while welcoming investment.

And then also – I'll be cool after this – but they also have a lot of homegrown entrepreneurs who are part of the decision making. You have Issa Rae bringing in fine dining and restaurants and coffee shops. You have Prophet Walker, a young developer who's developing multi-use and college housing on the Crenshaw Corridor. You have SoLa Impact and Martin Muoto, another developer who's developing in South LA around the Crenshaw Corridor, but doing so with the community. And you have the Council Member and his staff being the squeaky wheel, trying to get as much as they can, being as annoying as possible.

They've also tapped into other partners, like banks to give people loans to expand their businesses or to buy some of the empty parcels of land. So, it's been fascinating to watch how folks have harnessed investment, have harnessed nice things coming and have said, “no, we don't have to fear it. We don't have to be passive. We can control it. We can help shape this destiny. We might not get everything right, and everything might not stay the same, but we can keep character, bring in investment, and make sure that everyone gets to enjoy the new nice thing.”

So, definitely I would say the South LA Destination Crenshaw area is a good example of investment without gentrification.

Alex Melendrez, LA-Based YIMBY Activist and Former National YIMBY Organizer:

Michael, I hear you. What immediately comes to mind is fighting the scarcity mindset. You just encapsulated it very well with that messaging.

Steve M. Boyle, Executive Director of YIMBY Democrats for America:

Speaking of fighting the scarcity mindset: we have a few minutes left. And, for those few minutes, Michael, I wonder if you can put on your professor cap for a second, because I want us to know: in the year of our Lord 2025, what should we know and what do we as a species know, about Guaranteed Income? What do you expect in terms of coming economic shifts? And what should policy makers be thinking about and learn from you in the years to come?

Michael Tubbs, Candidate for Lieutenant Governor of California:

Well, Number One, we know that it works. We've overseen 20 RCT trials across the country, not done by me but by independent researchers at the Center for Guaranteed Income Research at the University of Pennsylvania.

We know Guaranteed Income doesn't make people stop working. In fact, in many cases, it allows people to pursue work more. To go from part-time to full-time work. To pay for childcare so they can go to work. To deal with the transmission so they can go to work. To take time off their part-time jobs so they can apply for the full-time job.

We know that has positive health impacts and that so much of the stress and anxiety we see in our society are real mental health impacts. Oftentimes, the causal link is because of economic scarcity. It's because of stress. It's because of not sleeping. It's because of not being able to take care of yourself because you worry about paying for necessities.

We know, as it relates to housing, that the average amount of money that people are evicted for isn't the full amount of rent. It's $381. Like, folks are able to pay some of it. They're not like, "I'm not going to pay rent." They're like, "this is what I have to pay."

We know Guarantee Income is a stabilizer that allows people not to be evicted. Because we also know, when someone is evicted, it's hard to get them back in housing. We know it has all types of cascading impacts on generations: not on just folks, but also their kids.

And we also know that a Guaranteed Income is not a panacea for everything. It can't solve for every issue. But, it can solve for the issue of a lack of cash and for focusing a floor and a foundation.

And we did a large-scale experiment in this country during COVID with the Child Tax Credit, where, in one year, 90% of the kids in this country qualified, and we cut child poverty in half in one year. So it's also doable.

And the country didn't change. This is in a time when people were protesting the capitol – protesting elections, doing insurrections – but not a single person burned a stimulus check or their child tax credit. Not a single person protested that. No Republican was upset. In fact, then President Trump, remember he stopped the printing press and said, "do not print these checks unless my name is on them. I want people to know I did this!" Right?

So, we know it's also a winning issue. And, with automation and with AI, we don't know the exact impacts, but we know there will be some disruption. We know that new jobs will be created, but we also know some people will lose their jobs.

And what's interesting about it is that: the research tells us that the types of folks who are going to lose their jobs aren't the people that people think. In addition to call centers, it's going to be white collar workers. It's going to be entry-level accountants. Entry-level lawyers. Entry-level folks who have professional jobs. Who went to good schools. Who went to college and got the degree. And we're going to have to have some sort of floor to allow folks to transition to the new jobs that are created. To allow folks to stabilize. And to allow folks to get those early job experiences, Number One.

And then, Number Two, I think in addition to Universal Basic Income, part of the conversation I want to have, particularly as Lieutenant Governor, is: what does Universal Basic Capital look like?

Given that these language models are valuable because of our data, and given that social media is valuable because of our data, how do we own a piece of that, so that it compounds and grows and then we all have a stake in the success and we all have a stake when things go well?

Whether it's a fund similar to – in Alaska, they have their permanent fund based off of oil, because that's their oil, right? In California, our oil is tech. It's innovation. It's data. It's AI. It's the future. And we have to have a conversation about, how do we make sure everyone gets a piece? So that folks are able to transition, thrive, and benefit from what they're giving value to and what they are making valuable with their decisions, with their questions, with their pictures, and with their uses.

They're all data companies at the end of the day. And that data is ours.

Steve M. Boyle, Executive Director of YIMBY Democrats for America:

I love that. Right? I mean, that idea that our oil is us. It's our words and our emotions and our attention and, when the stock market goes up, when companies boom, when they hire people, create jobs, the oil that is running them – the thing that they are selling – is your attention. And we should make a little bit from our attention. Just a little bit. Just a little bit. Just a little bit.

Michael, it has been such an honor to hang out with you today and get to know you a little bit and hear about how you’re working to lift people up, from lifting people up with guaranteed income and brazen innovative early experiments in that which you saw through and continue to see through. You talk about keeping people safe and making sure communities are places where everyone can thrive with a new deal for both citizens and police in terms of their roles and how they can engage and participate in the culture. And, of course, lifting people up now in your work as you pursue the Lieutenant Governorship, fighting for homes.

Maybe we'll lift some people up – quite literally up – into the sky.

I'm going to come to you for final remarks and thoughts in a second, but I do want to give Alex and Zennon a chance to just throw out any final parting thoughts!

Zennon Ulyate-Crow, Board Member for YIMBY LA:

I had one question that I was really curious about. There's been this unholy alliance for a long time between a lot of people that are on the Progressive side but have been opposed to change and your massive McMansion homeowners who are like, “yeah, we don't want any change.”

That's what's been stopping a lot of development and a lot of progress in trying to create new things because we don't want to see that change.

But, I think we've been starting to see that coalition start to fracture. I think the win by Zohran Mamdani in New York City is a fantastic example of that. He had 'Halal Economics,' where he talked about reducing the permit prices for getting halal truck permits and talked about building more supply as a means of making sure that we can deliver and that government can deliver.

Can you touch on that a little bit and where you see yourself in that dynamic and where that's heading?

Michael Tubbs, Candidate for Lieutenant Governor of California:

Yeah. Orthodoxy isn't my thing, right? I have a clear sense of values. And then, those values operate issue by issue. So, I think I am obsessed with government working. I'm obsessed with delivering. I'm obsessed with outcomes. And I think, because in Stockton I had three Republicans and three Democrats on my council to do all the work I did, I've become very astute at just getting things done.

Some people say I am Progressive and some Progressives say I'm a Progressive Moderate, so I don't know. At the end of the day, I live as someone who (A) believes that everyone has inherent dignity and value, equal value, and that (B) government has to work for everyone, and that (C) government has a responsibility to correct the harms that government caused. That's my Political Philosophy 101.

And I'm also someone who's not afraid to fight. I'm someone who believes that government doesn't just belong to the people who pay attention. Doesn't just belong to the people who benefit from government contracts. Doesn't just belong for the industry around government. But actually belongs to the people who are too busy to even know what the hell is going on in Sacramento. And that you have a responsibility to always show up and advocate for them.

Steve M. Boyle, Executive Director of YIMBY Democrats for America:

The Left-Right spectrum breakdown and questions of "where on the Left are you?” are always so funny because we have this attachment to ‘map’ that can explain where a human falls, but asking how Left or Right you are is actually just asking – I guess we don't have Buzzfeed quizzes anymore, but it's basically like a stupid online quiz asking – "where would you have sat in the first year of the French Revolution?"

That's what it is! There was one building, and the more Liberal people sat on the Left side, and the more Conservative people sat on the Right side. And it didn't even last that long! It's literally a question of “what table would you have sat at in 1790 or something?" It is a stupid way to describe politics.

Michael Tubbs, Candidate for Lieutenant Governor of California:

I'll probably get in trouble for this – whatever! – but I also don't think there's a “Right!”

I think anyone who aligns with the Republican Party today is “Far Right.” There's nothing "conservative" about massive government spending. There's nothing "good governance" about kidnapping people off the street. There's nothing conservative about corruption. Like, that is not "Right." That's wrong! It's wrong. Like, it's wrong, it's wrong. It's “Left” and “Wrong.”

So, I think that there is – and I tell people all the time – I think we have to be wedded to solving the problem rather than to having the solution. If we have that beginner's mindset, like “this is a problem” and we’re open to solutions, we could get to more solutions because no one has all the answers and no one way of thinking has all the answers as well.

We're centering everyone and thinking through basic norms of human decency. I think that gives us the opportunity to come up with solutions that may be "Right," but, again, those words mean nothing! What matters is the impact. Are people helped? Are people housed? Are people clothed? Are our people fed? That should be how we measure one's political orientation.

Steve M. Boyle, Executive Director of YIMBY Democrats for America:

Thank you for making that point. Journalists, please remove the word "conservative" from your vocabulary when talking about the Right and the Republican Party! It is gone. If you are trying to repeal the last hundred years of American global leadership and the American welfare state and American economy, and if you are trying to disrupt the world order, then without even asking whether that’s good or bad (it's bad), we can conclude that it’s not conservative; it's radical.

While we're at it, let's not call people "Progressives" who are scared of the future. If we care about Progress, we have to build Progress.

Alex Melendrez, LA-Based YIMBY Activist and Former National YIMBY Organizer:

Those were going to be my ending comments, actually.

Steve M. Boyle, Executive Director of YIMBY Democrats for America:

Do it, Alex!

Alex Melendrez, LA-Based YIMBY Activist and Former National YIMBY Organizer:

I mean, I think the whole crux of why we're here with YIMBY Democrats for America is we have to sell a better vision to our party on what we could do with economic development. Give people an opportunity to live. The working class. And it's clear that we fell off of that a little bit in the last election.

I think that's the work you've been focusing on, especially in outcomes. I think this is where we really need to go. And I think this is how it ties into Abundance and building a better America where people can thrive means focusing on anti-poverty and fighting the scarcity with solutions, which I think Michael really encapsulates.

Steve M. Boyle, Executive Director of YIMBY Democrats for America:

And, oh, by the way, that outcome oriented vision? That’s the origin of Progressivism. That is what it means. The original Progressives were the YIMBYs, the wonks, the data dorks who thought that if you applied a scientific lens of inquiry and experimentation and reason to the world around us, and if you cared about numbers and data, then you could use that to create better solutions.

And then, like FDR, you could evaluate those solutions. It's what you talked about, too, earlier! I was going to bring it up earlier because The New Deal was not handed down like tablets to Moses! Nor was it some long-standing master plan of FDR's.

He took office in a crisis. He said, we just have to try as much s**t as possible, as committed as possible, and we're going to constantly evaluate and experiment, and we're going to run with what works, and we're going to change what doesn't. That was our New Deal! That was FDR!

Michael Tubbs, Candidate for Lieutenant Governor of California:

I'll be quiet after this, but I tell people that the most Progressive thing you can do is hold power accountable. The most Progressive thing you can do is demand that government works.

That's literally what it means to be Progressive. To hold power to account. To say that this government we're all giving money to has a responsibility to us. And making sure it ensures its responsibility. Building housing, all types of housing, including affordable housing, is Progressive.

I was talking to a friend the other day, and I also think this is not about being anti-union. Unions are good things! Just like building housing is a good thing. Sometimes interests converge, and sometimes interests collide. And then there has to be dialogue. Sometimes there may be some conflict. But that doesn't mean the project's lost. That doesn't mean there's no alignment anywhere. It means that we have to come to grips with the fact that in California we have unions, and union wages are good things. We also have to come to grips with the fact that, in California, we need more housing and a lot more housing. In fact, it's better for unions when there's more housing because there's more jobs that are created!

So, I think to your point, it's just pausing a little bit and really disentangling. Let everyone see the whole picture. Like, “this is what we're trying to get to. This is our goals. This is what we stand for, and this is how we get there.”

I think our job is to paint a vision that's big enough. Where everyone sees themself in it, even if the role isn't exactly the same as it's always been. Because change is also part of life, part of government. It's a constant, particularly in the times we live in.

Steve M. Boyle, Executive Director of YIMBY Democrats for America:

You know, as Democrats, as Progressives, we believe in and are committed to the cause of being champions for the working class and for working people in America and in California. And it doesn't help working people in America or working people in California if one group of workers makes it so that all the other workers can't afford a place to live or stay in their neighborhood or spend so much time commuting that they can't be with their families. But, when we build…

And, of course, the alliance between the YIMBY movement and the Labor movement in California has been so instrumental in so many changes in the state because it is workers that build those homes. It is workers who live in those homes. When we build those homes, it is workers that can stay in their homes–

Michael Tubbs, Candidate for Lieutenant Governor of California:

And workers who can afford the homes they build!

Steve M. Boyle, Executive Director of YIMBY Democrats for America:

Afford the homes they build! Live by where they work, so that you are spending those six hours with your family and not the highway!

Michael, you have a verbal tic, which I'm sure you're aware of. But you've said it at least three times here. You've said, "I'll be quiet after this.”

I'm sure you learned that somewhere. I'm sure you had to learn that. And I don't know if that was just growing up as a young black man in America. I don't know if that was a family member who told you that. I don't know if it was your campaign team who said, “man, keep it short for the clip!” But, you've said it a few times: "I'll be quiet after this."

And my wish for you is: that you don't.

Michael Tubbs, Candidate for Lieutenant Governor of California:

I appreciate that.

Alex Melendrez, LA-Based YIMBY Activist and Former National YIMBY Organizer:

I agree.

Steve M. Boyle, Executive Director of YIMBY Democrats for America:

Stay loud, man.

Michael Tubbs, Candidate for Lieutenant Governor of California:

Appreciate you.

Steve M. Boyle, Executive Director of YIMBY Democrats for America:

And, speaking of: one final opportunity. Michael Tubbs: loudly, without being quiet after this – although the whole podcast might be quiet after this. It's all got to end at some point. No finale, no story!

So, Michael Tubbs, thanks for being with us today, man. What thoughts do you want to leave us with? How do we follow you and your campaign for Lieutenant Governor. And how do we support you?

Michael Tubbs, Candidate for Lieutenant Governor of California:

You can follow me at @MichaelDTubbs on Instagram, on X, and I think I just created TikTok recently. It's at @MichaelDTubbs. Really excited about that.

Or MichaelTubbsForCA.com. You can sign up for updates. You can donate. You can volunteer. You can send your policy ideas.

The last comment I'll make is this: given everything that's happening nationally, California is even more important. The alternative to MAGA can't be unaffordability. It can't be an inability to build anything. It can't be homelessness. As folks are looking for alternatives to Trumpism, California has the opportunity. But we have to lead, and not just in words, but in action.

So, in this moment, our state has to be very clear-eyed, very resolute, and very determined to begin to solve the issues we face: Number One being housing. Housing and security. That's going to require all of us to think differently. It's going to require leadership.

And that's why I'm running for Lieutenant Governor. I am prepared, excited, and willing to help exert the leadership necessary to move California from the state of inertia to a state of Progress. Meaning that Progress is happening all around California.

Tech and everything else around it seems to be moving: moving quickly and pivoting and responding to the times. Californians deserve a government that's also as nimble, as creative, as innovative, as forward-thinking, and as future-embracing as the sectors that power its economy are.

That's the only way we defeat MAGA once and for all. It's not just providing good vision, but a reality: where folks are like, "wow, I want to live in California. They have all this Liberal stuff. It works. It's clean. It's safe. I can afford to live there. It's fun. There's things to do. It's diverse."

We have to make that vision a reality. And we can do it. That's why I'm excited to be running.

Steve M. Boyle, Executive Director of YIMBY Democrats for America:

The eyes of the world are on us, and I do believe you are 100% right. What we do here and what we do now – and soon – is going to decide the fate of America and therefore the fate of world history, I think, for quite a while to come.

Michael Tubbs, Candidate for Lieutenant Governor of California:

Yeah. Not hyperbolic at all. Seriously.

Steve M. Boyle, Executive Director of YIMBY Democrats for America:

So, let's go do it! Let's go! Let's do it!

Michael Tubbs, let's build California.

Build America. Defeat Fascism.

Michael Tubbs, thank you so much for joining us today on Radio Abundance!

For Zennon Ulyate-Crow and Alex Melendrez. I am Steve Boyle. Thank you for joining us on Radio Abundance live in Los Angeles. We'll see you next time. Thanks everybody!

Get full access to Radio Abundance by YIMBY Democrats for America at radioabundance.substack.com/subscribe

Interview: Winners & losers in tech stocks for 2022