My guest today is Keyu Jin. Keyu Jin is a Chinese economist currently teaching at the London School of Economics, and she just published a book called "The New China Playbook". Keyu gave a TED Talk about a month ago, the same week that I did, and that's how I became aware of her.

​​​​​​​So Keyu has an unorthodox stance on China, at least to a Western audience. It's now a bipartisan consensus that China is our main geopolitical rival and that we ought to treat China as if not an outright enemy than at least a major adversary. From trade wars to theft of our intellectual property to spy balloons, most American politicians would endorse a tough on China stance, at least in principle. Keyu Jin believes that this is the wrong approach. She thinks that America and the West have misunderstood and unfairly villainized China.

As you'll hear in our conversation, I don't share her view, but I'm always interested to hear the arguments of the lone voice willing to buck a consensus. So we talk about China's economy, its strengths and its weaknesses. We discuss China's political system and why it differs from countries like South Korea and Japan. We talk about China's declining birth rate. We talk about the problem of brain drain from China. We talk about China's current human rights record, including its detention of around a million Uyghur Muslims and other minorities in Xinjiang. We talk about China's aspirations to annex Taiwan and much more.