Strangeness is the new real. Martin Shaw & Mark Vernon in conversation
Mar 28, 2024
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Martin Shaw, who experienced a visionary journey to Christianity, discusses the reviving interest in Christianity, reconnecting with myths and fairytales, being in the world but not of it, and the importance of stories. He also touches on the new course 'The Skin-Boat and the Star' and the allure of Christ in today's world.
The revival of interest in Christianity from diverse backgrounds highlights a cultural shift towards exploring faith in unconventional ways.
Engaging with myths and stories is emphasized as a means to uncover deep truths within Christianity, fostering a connection to its mystical essence.
Moving from personas to presence through storytelling conveys the transformative power of embracing authenticity and simplicity in Christian practice.
Deep dives
Renewed Interest in Christianity
There is a cultural revival of interest in Christianity stemming from various backgrounds like philosophers and boat builders. The speaker shares their experience of joining the Russian Orthodox Church through a process of christmation, finding joy in the mystical elements of Christianity. The broad view of Christianity, beyond just textual analysis, was highlighted at the Symbolic World Summit, emphasizing a focus on the wider symbolic world that Christianity points towards.
Rediscovering the Depth of Christianity
The conversation delves into the essence of Christianity beyond surface-level practices. It explores the radical nature of Jesus' teachings and emphasizes the need to experience Christianity in a way that goes beyond mere theory or tradition. The discussion touches on the importance of engaging with mythology and stories to connect with the deeper truths within Christianity.
Embracing Narrative and Rediscovering Presence
The significance of storytelling and the power of myth in conveying profound truths is highlighted. The conversation underscores the transformative potential of engaging with stories that reveal deeper layers of existence. It encourages moving from personas to presence, symbolized by the Grail story's message of seeking the grace bestowed in youth through willful rediscovery in later life.
Embracing Ordinary Christianity and Staying Authentic
The speaker discusses his journey towards embracing the simplicity of being just an ordinary Christian without adding unnecessary complexities. He values authenticity and rejects elaborate titles or labels like mystic or orthodox, emphasizing the importance of genuine connection with his faith. By focusing on being a humble worker for Jesus Christ rather than seeking recognition or grandeur, he finds a sense of purpose and authenticity in his spiritual practice.
Exploring Christian Identity and Interpretations
In the podcast, the speaker delves into the multifaceted nature of Christian identity and interpretation. He emphasizes the significance of being in the presence of God and the genuine response it evokes, challenging the notion that good works alone define a Christian. The conversation extends to the complexities of reconciling personal religious growth with established teachings, leading to a course revision that bridges ancient stories with contemporary understanding. Through exploring the essence of faith beyond traditional boundaries, the speaker invites individuals to engage with wonder and authenticity in their spiritual journey.
A couple of years back, Martin Shaw had a visionary experience that led him to Christianity. We talked about it as the Mossy face of Christ - https://youtu.be/8luN8bDDRBs?si=c7jHUt-Ih5xKlVWq
So it was great to talk again about what's been happening. Which is much. The conversation ranges over what might be happening now with Christianity, Martin's recent participation in the Symbolic World Summit, the strangeness, weirdness and terror of Christ, being in the world but not of it, and the importance of myths, stories and fairytales.
We mentioned Martin's new course The Skin-Boat and the Star as a practical manifestation of what has been happening for him. For more on that see here - https://schoolofmyth.com/five-weekend-programme/
For more on Mark's work see - https://www.markvernon.com
0:00 The reviving of interest in Christianity 2:53 Report from the Symbolic World Summit 6:53 Christ, fairytales and reconnecting with the source 14:21 How to keep Christianity strange 21:33 From ideas to encounter 24:11 Being in the world but not of the world 29:08 Passions of the soul and Rowan Williams 37:38 Knowing stories and inhabiting stories 43:48 From persona to presence 47:56 Good fruits not good works 49:26 Martin's new course and the imaginative edge 52:44 What puts people off Christianity? 54:01 Proxies for the Spirit 58:17 Limits and more, growth and depth 01:04:21 Romanticism coming of age 01:12:13 Jonathan Pageau, Malcolm Guite, Iain McGilchrist and others on the new course
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