KOL241 | Dave Smith’s Part of the Problem Show: Libertarian Property Theory

Kinsella on Liberty Podcast, Episode 241. I was a guest yesterday (3/26/18) on Dave Smith's podcast. His description: "Talking Libertarian Legal philosophy with Stephan Kinsella. Topics include how the court systems could work without government and why intellectual property isn't real." We discussed a wide-ranging but fairly high-level array of libertarian theory issues, including how I became a libertarian, the main influencers (Ayn Rand, Milton Friedman, Bastiat, Mises, Rothbard), property theory and scarcity, Hoppe's argumentation ethics, praxeology, dualism of various types, and, sigh, yes, intellectual property. Dave even worked in a funny joke about "The Man on the Moon" ... well you'll just have to see for yourself. But he stole it from Steve Martin. Good times. Youtube: https://youtu.be/bV4UFJQtxu4 Transcript below, as well as a Grok summary: Below is a summary of the discussion from the Part of the Problem podcast episode featuring Dave Smith and Stephan Kinsella, as aired on the provided YouTube link. The summary is organized into 10–15 bullet points with approximate time markers, based on the transcript provided. 0:00–1:15: Dave Smith opens the episode with a sponsor ad for stamps.com, highlighting its convenience for mailing services, available 24/7, and offering a four-week trial, postage, and a digital scale for new users who sign up with the promo code "problem." He encourages listeners to support the sponsor to help keep the show running. 1:21–1:43: The podcast intro emphasizes themes of freedom, questioning how the U.S. can claim to be the freest country while incarcerating more people than any other nation, reflecting on the growth of government from America’s founding to the present day. 1:55–3:37: Dave announces upcoming events, including a sold-out comedy show and podcast in Los Angeles, a meet-up with Jason Stapleton and others on March 31, and a debate at the Soho Forum on April 16 about fractional reserve banking featuring Bob Murphy and George Selgin. He also promotes the Contra Cruise (October 21–28), describing it as a libertarian vacation. 3:37–4:34: Dave introduces guest Stephan Kinsella, a libertarian writer and patent attorney, praising his insights into libertarian philosophy. Kinsella briefly describes his work, mentioning his legal practice in Texas and an upcoming book compiling essays on rights theory, intellectual property, and contract theory. 4:58–7:36: Kinsella shares his journey to libertarianism, sparked by reading Ayn Rand’s The Fountainhead in high school, which led him to philosophy and economics, then to Murray Rothbard’s works. He transitioned from a Randian minarchist to an anarchist, influenced by Rand, Milton Friedman, and later Ron Paul, though his libertarian roots predate Paul’s prominence. 7:45–11:28: The discussion shifts to contemporary politics, with Dave expressing disappointment in Rand Paul for not fully carrying forward Ron Paul’s legacy, though acknowledging he’s still a strong senator. Kinsella notes he avoids political activism, finding Trump’s presidency entertaining and preferable to a Hillary Clinton administration, despite policy flaws like tariffs and neoconservative appointments. 11:45–16:28: Kinsella expresses skepticism about achieving an anarcho-capitalist society through political or intellectual activism, citing historical failures and societal resistance to libertarian ideas. He’s cautiously optimistic, believing technological advancements and wealth could naturally erode state power, making freedom a default rather than a persuaded ideal, referencing the fall of communism in 1990 as a cultural shift toward markets. 16:34–20:41: Dave and Kinsella discuss the irony of modern socialism’s appeal, noting that even leftists now reference Nordic models rather than pure socialism, a tacit victory for markets. Kinsella laments the ignorance of socialism’s historical failures among youth, attributing it to wealth-induced complacency in the West, where freedom is taken for granted. 20:49–23:12: Dave reflects on the libertarian obsession with opposing state mechanisms (wars, taxes, incarceration) that ideally wouldn’t exist, highlighting the altruistic streak in libertarians who advocate for systemic change over personal gain. Kinsella agrees, noting activism often demands sacrifice without direct reward. 23:24–33:17: The conversation turns to Hans-Hermann Hoppe’s argumentation ethics, which Kinsella explains as a proof of libertarianism rooted in the presuppositions of discourse. By engaging in argument, parties implicitly accept norms like non-coercion and self-ownership, making socialism’s coercive norms self-contradictory. Kinsella credits Hoppe’s logic for bypassing the is-ought problem, though notes resistance from other libertarians, possibly due to jealousy or preference for open-ended debate. 33:37–41:06: Dave praises Hoppe’s clarity, despite misrepresentations by critics and supporters alike, who falsely paint him as extreme. Kinsella ties argumentation ethics to praxeology, explaining that human action requires scarce resources (needing property rights to avoid conflict) and knowledge (non-scarce, thus not requiring rights), setting the stage for discussing intellectual property (IP). 41:27–50:44: Kinsella attributes libertarian appeal to a desire for consistency, contrasting this with other ideologies’ indifference to contradictions. He recommends foundational texts like Hazlitt’s Economics in One Lesson and Bastiat’s The Law for economic literacy, critical for libertarianism. The discussion briefly contrasts Austrian and Chicago school economics, with Kinsella favoring Mises, Rothbard, and Hoppe for their rigor and realism about the state. 50:51–58:20: Kinsella clarifies Hoppe’s Democracy: The God That Failed, emphasizing it doesn’t advocate monarchy but critiques democracy’s flaws compared to monarchy’s incentives for long-term stewardship. Dave notes democracy’s illusion of collective ownership enables greater state plunder, unlike monarchies where rulers are distinct from the ruled. They question correlations between democracy and prosperity, suggesting capitalism, not governance type, drives wealth. 58:32–1:16:20: Kinsella dismantles intellectual property, arguing it’s incompatible with libertarianism. Property rights apply to scarce resources to prevent conflict, not to non-scarce ideas, which anyone can use without depriving others. He critiques Locke’s labor theory of value for conflating creation with ownership, noting creation transforms owned resources, not generates new property. IP, like patents and copyrights, is a positive right that undermines negative rights, effectively redistributing control over physical resources under the guise of protecting innovation. 1:16:44–1:32:29: Addressing law in an anarcho-capitalist society, Kinsella envisions a system of customary and contractual norms enforced by insurance companies and arbitration, not state coercion. Restitution, not retribution, would dominate, with ostracism incentivizing compliance. He contrasts this with state-driven wars and taxation, suggesting freedom’s risks are preferable. Dave wraps up, thanking Kinsella, who directs listeners to his website (stephankinsella.com) for more, humorously dubbing Dave the “smartest funny guy.” This summary captures the key themes and arguments, maintaining brevity while covering the breadth of the hour-long discussion. Youtube transcript: 0:00 [KOL241: Dave Smith Part of the Problem Show] DAVE SMITH: All right, guys, today's episode is brought to you by stamps.com, which is a wonderful service. 0:06 Everybody here at Gas Digital uses it, stamps.com. It provides you with basically all of the services of the post office. 0:13 You can print postage for any mail class, right from your own computer. The beauty of that is that, unlike the post office, it's 24/7, and you don't have to waste time traveling to and from the post office. 0:24 And everyone in business knows when you're wasting time, you're wasting money, and that's how businesses go out of business. They burn up too much capital, so go to stamps.com. It's a great service, makes life much more convenient. 0:34 Everyone's got to ship stuff, and stamps.com brings all those great services right to you. So right now, if you go to stamps.com, they're going to give you a pretty sweet deal. 0:46 Okay, it includes a four-week trial, plus postage and a digital scale. All you’ve got to do is go to stamps.com, click on the microphone at the top of the homepage, and type in problem@stamps.com. 0:57 You click on the microphone and you type in problem, and you get that four-week trial plus postage and a digital scale. Guys, stamps.com has been sponsoring us for a while. They're helping make this show possible. 1:06 Do us a favor. Go support the people who support us. Try the service out. Save yourself some time. Add some convenience to your life, and help out the show that you love: stamps.com. 1:15 1:21 M: You're listening to Part of the Problem on the Gas Digital Network. DAVE SMITH: How can you be the freest country in the world when you lock more of your own people in cages than any other country in the world? 1:31 The lesson of 9/11 should have been to never fund another young rebel group in this part of the world again. 1:37 America’s saga is the smallest government in history, and it's become the biggest government in the world to this day. 1:43 At the end of the day, it's all about freedom. M: Here's your host, Dave Smith. DAVE SMITH: Oh hello, hello, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to a brand new episode of Part of the Problem. 1:55 I am, of course, Dave Smith. We got a great show planned for you guys today.