In this wide-ranging conversation, Dr. Yuval Noah Harari and Dr. Shermer discuss nationalism, tribalism, God and religion, free will and determinism, AI algorithms and human volition, the future of liberal democracy, colonizing Mars, and much more.
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Quick takeaways
The collapse of the liberal story has led to a revival of nationalism and religion as people search for new stories to fill the vacuum.
Advancements in biology and brain science threaten liberal democracy by allowing the control and manipulation of people's desires and emotions.
Religion has lost its authority over practical matters and primarily serves as a means of defining identity, often utilized by governments to cement national identities.
Deep dives
The Shift from a Single Story to Zero Stories
In the 20th century, there were three big stories explaining everything: fascist, communist, and liberal. The Second World War knocked out the fascist story, leaving the ideological battle between communism and liberalism. With the collapse of communism, the liberal story became the guide. However, the liberal story is now collapsing, causing panic and bewilderment. This void has led to a revival of nationalism and religion as people search for new stories to fill the vacuum.
Humans as Hackable Animals
Advancements in biology and brain science are allowing for the hacking of human beings. Humans are algorithmic organisms, and their decisions and desires are influenced by biochemical and genetic factors. The ability to control and manipulate people's desires and emotions threatens liberal democracy and challenges traditional ideas of free will. As external systems gain the ability to understand and manipulate individuals better than they understand themselves, the principles of democracy and free market become undermined.
Religion's Transformation and Evolving Role
Religion has undergone significant changes over the past few centuries. Historically, religion had authority over various practical matters such as agriculture, medicine, and security. However, religion has lost its authority in these fields, diminishing its power and influence. Today, religion primarily plays a role in defining identity, although even in this aspect, it has become subservient to nationalism. Governments now utilize religion to cement national identities, which has disappointed the original founders of various religions.
The Challenges of Society and the Need for a New Political and Economic System
The podcast explores the idea that societal architecture needs to evolve in order to address the challenges presented by the ability to manipulate and control individuals' thoughts and desires. In the past, trust in voters and customers was reasonable since no one could understand what was happening inside someone's mind and exploit it. However, with the capability to hack into people's minds, a new political and economic system needs to be developed. The podcast suggests that the current system is inadequate, but the debate on finding solutions has barely begun. It emphasizes the need to look forward instead of clinging to nostalgic fantasies and proposes individual and collective actions, such as self-awareness and the creation of unions, to protect against manipulation by corporations and governments.
Harnessing Technology and Forming New Systems to Navigate Digital Dictatorships
The podcast explores the potential dangers of digital dictatorships while discussing strategies to maintain control over our own minds and protect individual freedom. It suggests that relying solely on laws and regulations to curb the power of digital giants like Google may be ineffective. Instead, the focus should be on working with technology rather than against it. On an individual level, getting to know ourselves and our weaknesses is crucial to defending against manipulation. Technology, such as AI sidekicks or defenders, could help block or alert us to manipulative tactics. Collectively, organizations and unions can be formed to protect users against the influence of corporations and governments. Additionally, technological advancements, like blockchain, can provide a counterbalance to centralized systems. The podcast emphasizes that diversifying solutions and thinking beyond regulations are essential for addressing complex technological challenges.
In this dialogue with one of the most interesting minds of our time, the Hebrew University historian and best-selling author (Sapiens, Homo Deus), Dr. Yuval Noah Harari, he and Dr. Shermer discuss the central ideas of his new book, 21 Lessons for the 21st Century, an exploration of: history, work, liberty, equality, community, civilization, nationalism, religion, immigration, terrorism, war, humility, God, secularism, ignorance, justice, post-truth, science fiction, education, meaning, and meditation. Dr. Harari and Dr. Shermer cover as many of these topics as reasonable in this wide-ranging conversation, focusing especially on nationalism, tribalism, God and religion, free will and determinism, AI algorithms and human volition, the future of liberal democracy, colonizing Mars, and much more.
Dr. Yuval Noah Harari has a Ph.D. in history from the University of Oxford, and now lectures at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, specializing in world history. His two books, Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind and Homo Deus: A Brief History of Tomorrow, have become global bestsellers, with more than twelve million copies sold and translations in more than forty-five languages.
