Internationally renowned security technologist Bruce Schneier discusses the complexities of trust in AI, distinguishing between trust and trustworthiness, exploring the risks of sharing personal data with AI, highlighting the importance of transparency and accountability in AI development, and debating global vs local AI regulations and the role of government sizes in regulation.
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Quick takeaways
AI operates under social trust like other tech tools, leading to concerns about surveillance and privacy compromises.
Distinguishing between interpersonal trust and social trust is crucial to understand AI's impact on privacy and data collection.
Deep dives
Challenges of Trusting AI: Social Trust vs. Interpersonal Trust
AI, like other tech tools, operates under social trust similar to trusting your phone or search engine. Concerns arise as AI is controlled by powerful corporations and may engage in surveillance. Differentiate between interpersonal trust based on personal knowledge and social trust enabled by societal systems. Social trust enables interactions like using Uber or banking whereas interpersonal trust is more personal and limited.
AI as Untrustworthy Tool: Surveillance and Privacy Concerns
AI's relational and conversational nature can lead to misplaced trust with users perceiving it as a friend rather than a service. Existing tech tools already compromise privacy with persistent surveillance. Concerns arise about AI's potential to collect personal data without trustworthiness. Mitigating AI's spying and ensuring user privacy poses challenges for maintaining trust in AI's use in various applications.
Need for Public AI Models: Addressing Corporate Control
Proposes the concept of public AI models to counter corporate-controlled AI. Urges the development of non-profit AI models by universities, governments, or consortiums. Calls for public AI models to provide an alternative to corporate AI dominance. Emphasizes the importance of regulation to ensure AI trustworthiness and accountability in the face of corporate influences.
Regulation and Accountability in AI Development
Advocates for regulating AI applications through existing laws governing human behavior and outcomes. Stresses the need for specific AI regulations to address unique challenges. Argues for the responsibility of humans, not just AI, in decision-making and behavior. Supports robust regulatory environments that balance innovation with societal welfare and ethical considerations.
Trust is the foundation of any relationship, whether it's between friends or in business. But what happens when the entity you're asked to trust isn't human, but AI? How do you ensure that the AI systems you're developing are not only effective but also trustworthy? In a world where AI is increasingly making decisions that impact our lives, how can we distinguish between systems that genuinely serve our interests and those that might exploit our data?
Bruce Schneier is an internationally renowned security technologist, called a “security guru” by The Economist. He is the author of over one dozen books—including his latest, A Hacker’s Mind—as well as hundreds of articles, essays, and academic papers. His influential newsletter “Crypto-Gram” and his blog “Schneier on Security” are read by over 250,000 people. He has testified before Congress, is a frequent guest on television and radio, has served on several government committees, and is regularly quoted in the press. Schneier is a fellow at the Berkman Klein Center for Internet & Society at Harvard University; a Lecturer in Public Policy at the Harvard Kennedy School; a board member of the Electronic Frontier Foundation and AccessNow; and an Advisory Board Member of the Electronic Privacy Information Center and VerifiedVoting.org. He is the Chief of Security Architecture at Inrupt, Inc.
In the episode, Richie and Bruce explore the definition of trust, the difference between trust and trustworthiness, how AI mimics social trust, AI and deception, the need for public non-profit AI to counterbalance corporate AI, monopolies in tech, understanding the application and potential consequences of AI misuse, AI regulation, the positive potential of AI, why AI is a political issue and much more.