Tucker Carlson, Nick Fuentes and the Right’s ‘Groyper’ Problem

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Nov 14, 2025

John Ganz, political writer and historian behind the newsletter 'Unpopular Front,' delves into the implications of Tucker Carlson's interview with white nationalist Nick Fuentes. They discuss the rise of the Groyper movement and how online meme culture is radicalizing young conservatives. Ganz analyzes Carlson's shift into a political leader for MAGA and how antisemitic tropes are presented as mainstream discourse. The conversation also touches on the generational divide within conservatism and whether the extreme rhetoric can gain electoral traction.

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INSIGHT

Fuentes' Plainspoken Appeal To Young Online Audiences

John Ganz says Nick Fuentes is the most popular representative of neo-Nazism in America and speaks plainly about Jews and Hitler.
Fuentes's open style appeals to a young online audience that finds masked bigotry refreshing and titillating.

INSIGHT

Groyper Culture Emerges From Online Meme Ecosystems

Ganz describes Groypers as a meme-driven online subculture that normalizes antisemitic, racist, and conspiratorial content.
That culture bubbles up from message boards and group chats rather than elite intellectuals.

INSIGHT

Trump Opened Political Space For Fringe Movements

Ganz traces the alt-right resurgence to Trump, who opened space for fringe figures to emerge into public view.
Early alt-right moments receded but persisted online and re-emerged when platform guardrails relaxed.

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Is this the future of MAGA?

Tucker Carlson’s interview with the white nationalist influencer Nick Fuentes has caused a firestorm on the right. Carlson and Fuentes’s friendly chat about American Jews — whether they fit into this country or were loyal to Israel above all — was the kind of conversation that for decades would have been unimaginable among mainstream figures in politics. And by crossing that line, Carlson was making a statement — about the power of Fuentes’s movement and the future of MAGA.

To help me think through this, I wanted to talk to the political writer John Ganz. He’s studied the roots of antisemitism on the right and has followed the evolution of MAGA closely. He’s behind the newsletter Unpopular Front and the author of “When the Clock Broke: Con Men, Conspiracists, and How America Cracked Up in the Early 1990s.”

This episode contains strong language.

Mentioned:

“Unpopular Front” by John Ganz

“Finding Neverland” by John Ganz

“Groyperfication” by John Ganz

Book Recommendations:

Taking America Back by David Austin Walsh

Furious Minds by Laura K. Field

Prophets of Deceit by Norbert Guterman & Leo Lowenthal

Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.

You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast, and you can find Ezra on Twitter @ezraklein. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.

This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Jack McCordick. Fact-checking by Ashley Braun. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Isaac Jones. Our executive producer is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Marie Cascione, Annie Galvin, Rollin Hu, Kristin Lin, Emma Kehlbeck, Marina King and Jan Kobal. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The director of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser.

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