Firewalls Don't Stop Dragons Podcast Dividing Trust
May 26, 2025
01:10:19
VPNs were not invented for privacy, despite the name – they were invented for security. Nevertheless, in recent years, they have been touted as privacy tools to thwart rampant and fanatical data gathering. With a regular VPN, this really just means you’re shifting your trust from your internet service provider to your VPN provider. But what if your encrypted data traffic was actually divided between two separate companies? The split trust model is a powerful way to protect your privacy and it’s the key technology behind new services like Apple’s Private Relay and Obscura VPN. Today we’ll discuss the benefits of this approach with Obscura’s founder, Carl Dong.
Interview Notes
- Obscura VPN: https://obscura.net/
- Wireguard: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WireGuard
- Obscura Wireguard configuration tool: https://obscura.net/#faq-wireguard-config
- QUIC explainer video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnDsMehSSY4
- Masque: https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/masque/about/
- Privacy Pass: https://privacypass.github.io/
- Anubis: https://anubis.techaro.lol/docs/design/how-anubis-works/
- How Onion Routing Works: https://firewallsdontstopdragons.com/how-onion-routing-works/
Further Info
- My book: https://fdsd.me/book
- My newsletter: https://fdsd.me/newsletter
- Support the mission: https://fdsd.me/support
- Give the gift of privacy and security: https://fdsd.me/coupons
- Recommend news stories: send to news [at] firewallsdontstopdragons.com
- Send me your questions! https://fdsd.me/qna
- Get your Firewalls Don’t Stop Dragons Merch! https://fdsd.me/merch
Table of Contents
- 0:00:00: Intro
- 0:01:16: Interview setup
- 0:04:46: Lingo definitions
- 0:09:48: Why do we need yet another VPN?
- 0:15:00: How does Obscura differ from Apple Private Relay and Tor?
- 0:21:59: How little info can you give to set up an Obscura account?
- 0:25:33: What is the Bitcoin Lightning Network?
- 0:27:30: How can we know how much logging a VPN provider is doing?
- 0:35:04: Does Obscura have the same quirks as regular VPNs?
- 0:42:10: How vulnerable are you to being taken down by governments?
- 0:46:11: What are the core technologies in Obscura?
- 0:50:49: What do you think about Safing’s IP-per-connection idea?
- 0:54:00: Are you planning to expand your partner VPNs?
- 0:56:41: How does Obscura handle the TunnelVision problem?
- 0:59:57: What is the roadmap for supporting other operating systems?
- 1:03:14: What’s next for Obscura?
- 1:04:32: Interview wrap-up
- 1:09:19: Patron podcast preview
- 1:09:50: Looking ahead