Tom Holland, an award-winning historian and co-presenter of the popular history podcast, shares insights from his book, Dominion. The conversation dives into Christianity's profound influence on modern morality and historical interpretations of key events like the crucifixion. Holland examines moral frameworks from ancient civilizations, the darker legacies of Christianity, and tensions between religious and secular identities today. They explore the challenges posed by migration, ethical dilemmas, and the complex dynamics of faith, ethics, and the ongoing cultural transformations.
Christianity's profound legacy shapes modern moral frameworks, intertwining ethical concepts that many mistakenly regard as purely secular origins.
The paradox of Jesus' crucifixion illustrates how humiliation transformed into a symbol of inspiration, resonating deeply across cultures and societies.
The podcast critiques the collision between Western secularism and traditional Islam, highlighting cultural arrogance and the complexities of mutual understanding.
Deep dives
The Enduring Legacy of Christianity
Christianity is argued to be the most significant legacy of the ancient world, influencing moral frameworks that many perceive as secular. The roots of this influence stem from a rich confluence of cultural streams, including Hebrew scripture, Greek philosophy, and Roman universalism. Figures like Paul of Tarsus played a pivotal role in spreading these ideas throughout the Roman Empire, allowing non-Judeans to access spiritual teachings while promoting a universal message. This broad appeal helped Christianity grow in a world connected through trade and Roman infrastructure, making it a dominant moral and ethical framework still relevant today.
The Paradox of Jesus' Crucifixion
The crucifixion of Jesus is presented as a paradox, exemplifying how an event associated with humiliation transformed into a symbol of spiritual inspiration. Unlike other divine figures of the time, Jesus was a marginalized individual who suffered a brutal death, which Paul grapples with throughout his letters. This shock factor allowed the story of Jesus to resonate deeply, forming a basis for Christian belief that would lead to its spread despite initial embarrassment among followers regarding the nature of Jesus' death. Over centuries, the meaning of the crucifixion evolved, highlighting an enduring fascination with suffering and redemption within Christian culture.
Christian Ethics and Secular Morality
The emergence of secular morality in the modern world is tied to the ethical frameworks that originated within Christianity, suggesting that many contemporary moral intuitions are historically rooted in Christian thought. The podcast discusses how figures like Paul introduced a new moral paradigm that has shaped societal perceptions of right and wrong, asserting that Christianity's influence continues to be felt in modern ethical discussions. Even as many individuals, including self-identified atheists, reject direct ties to Christianity, the principles derived from it remain integral to their moral reasoning. Therefore, the argument posits that secular ethics cannot be fully understood without recognizing their Christian heritage.
Dangers of Moral Certitude
The French Revolution serves as a case study on the intoxicating nature of moral certitude, which can lead to extreme consequences if unchecked. Revolutionaries believed they were ushering in a new and just era, but such beliefs sometimes resulted in violence and persecution. The podcast warns against adopting a similar dogmatic approach in modern contexts, noting that conviction without humility can devolve into oppressive ideologies. This reflection on the revolution underscores the importance of recognizing the complexities of human nature and the potential pitfalls of utopianism.
The Conflict Between Western Liberalism and Islam
The tensions arising from the interaction between Western secularism and traditional Islam are examined, especially in light of recent immigration patterns and cultural clashes. The notion that Western values, often viewed as universal, may not align with the realities of Muslim beliefs is highlighted, acknowledging that such assumptions can lead to cultural arrogance. Historical influences have reshaped both Islamic and Western societies, often imposing conflicting worldviews that complicate the process of assimilation for Muslim immigrants. Ultimately, the podcast explores the dynamics of adaptation, suggesting that understanding these cultural differences is crucial for fostering coexistence.
Sam Harris speaks with Tom Holland about his book, Dominion: How theChristianRevolution Remade the World. They discuss the enduring influence of Christianity on the modern world, historical interpretations of crucifixion, the moral systems of ancient societies, Paul's letters, the impact of the parable of the Good Samaritan, Islam and how it relates to Christian notions of morality, secular sources of morality, the collision between Western norms and traditional Islam, how Western societies take their values for granted, the relevance of the Roman Republic and the French Revolution, and other topics.
Tom Holland is an award-winning historian, translator, and broadcaster. His most recent book, Pax, covers the heyday of the Roman Empire. He has translated Herodotus and Suetonius for Penguin Classics. He is a co-presenter of the world’s most popular history podcast, The Rest Is History. He has written and presented several TV documentaries on subjects ranging from the Islamic State to dinosaurs. He is a trustee of the British Library, an honorary fellow of Queens’ College, Cambridge, and has been described in The Times as “a leading English cricketer.” He caught his first salmon last October.
Learning how to train your mind is the single greatest investment you can make in life. That’s why Sam Harris created the Waking Up app. From rational mindfulness practice to lessons on some of life’s most important topics, join Sam as he demystifies the practice of meditation and explores the theory behind it.
Remember Everything You Learn from Podcasts
Save insights instantly, chat with episodes, and build lasting knowledge - all powered by AI.
