The New Rules Podcast E101: Mark Sayers on Faith, Fragility, and the Future We Can't Predict
Nov 5, 2025
Mark Sayers, pastor of Red Church in Melbourne and author known for his insights on faith and culture, delves into the complexities of leadership in today's uncertain world. He discusses the spiritual hunger sparked by global chaos and how this drives people towards community and faith. Sayers also examines the impact of AI on leadership, emphasizing the need for integrity and authenticity. Highlighting rising tribalism and nostalgia, he advocates for local connections and honest dialogue as vital responses to cultural challenges.
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Episode notes
Hidden Hunger For Depth
- People are growing tired of superficial promises and are seeking deeper meaning and community.
- That hunger is opening cultural pathways back toward faith and formation.
The World Became Thinkable Again
- The war in Ukraine made previously 'unthinkable' geopolitical conflicts thinkable again.
- New alignments (Russia, China, Iran) create varied forms of pressure short of open shooting but increase global fragility.
From Managers Back To Charismatic Leaders
- Post‑WWII leadership shifted from charismatic to managerial and expert-driven models.
- When systems fail, people swing back toward charismatic figures amplified by social media.
