Vanessa Frake spent decades inside Britain’s prison system - from Holloway to Wormwood Scrubs - and rose to become a prison governor. In this conversation, she describes what she says changed inside UK prisons as Islam grew, why prison authorities sometimes separate high-profile inmates like Tommy Robinson, and what it’s like trying to keep order when numbers, staff, and politics collide.

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We also talk about foreign national prisoners, deportation delays, staffing cuts, and why recruitment standards have fallen. Vanessa explains how prisoners manipulate officers, why female officer scandals keep hitting headlines, and how prisons handle complaints and “minefield” issues like religion, gender, and trans prisoners.

Vanessa’s book is The Governor.

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Topics covered

Islam in British prisons and Wormwood Scrubs
Tommy Robinson and separation in prison
Terrorism cases, safety, and control
Foreign national prisoners and deportation backlog
Staffing crisis, recruitment, and prison standards
Corruption, coercion, and media narratives
Rehabilitation and what the public gets wrong about prison

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