The Problem of Democracy with Shadi Hamid (S3 Ep.41)
Dec 17, 2022
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Shadi Hamid, senior fellow at the Brookings Institution and contributing writer at The Atlantic, discusses the difference between liberal democracy and democracy. They explore democratic minimalism in the Middle East, public opinion in Arab countries, the impact of democracy on the Israel-Palestine conflict, and lessons from the Arab Spring. They also touch on the challenges of accepting election results, the notion of a benign dictatorship, the problem of democracy in addressing zero COVID, and their book 'The Problem of Democracy'.
The podcast emphasizes the concept of democratic minimalism, promoting democracy in the Middle East despite potential illiberal outcomes.
The episode discusses the challenge of accepting election results and the importance of diffusing power through institutional design.
The podcast explores the complexities of promoting democracy in the Middle East, including the potential conflict between democratic outcomes and Israel's interests.
Deep dives
Difference between liberal democracy and democracy in the Middle East
The podcast episode discusses the distinction between liberal democracy and democracy in the Middle East. It explores the concept of democratic minimalism, which suggests promoting democracy in the region, even if it leads to illiberal outcomes. The speaker highlights the difference between Islamist and secular parties, the state of public opinion in Arab countries, and the implications of more democracy in the Middle East for the Israel-Palestine conflict.
The challenge of accepting democratic outcomes
The episode delves into the challenge of accepting election results, both in the Middle East and the United States. It acknowledges the rising difficulty of accepting outcomes that individuals do not favor. The speaker emphasizes the importance of finding ways to lower the stakes and diffusing power through institutional design. They also highlight the need for a settlement that ensures respect for democratic outcomes, even when individuals disagree with them.
The complex relationship between democracy and Israeli interests
The podcast episode explores the complexities of promoting democracy in the context of Israeli interests. It points out that democracy in the Middle East may not align with Israel's short-term or long-term interests, as majority Arab electorates tend to have anti-Israel sentiments. The speaker discusses the potential conflict between democracy reflecting popular sentiment and the desire for peaceful relations with Israel. They also highlight the short-sightedness of supporting autocratic regimes, as it may hinder long-term peace efforts.
The pitfalls and potential of democracy in the Middle East
The episode examines the potential challenges and benefits of democracy in the Middle East. It acknowledges that Islamist parties could come to power through democratic processes and discusses concerns about their potential for centralizing power and suppressing dissent. However, the speaker argues against the assumption that Islamist parties would immediately cancel democracy, citing limited empirical evidence supporting such claims. They emphasize the need for democratic settlement and argue that authoritarian regimes are impermanent, suggesting a long-term perspective in navigating the complexities of democracy in the region.
Israeli Short-Term Thinking
Due to the constant threat and violent conflict faced by Israelis, their focus is often on short-term survival rather than long-term planning. They are compelled to prioritize immediate security issues and support 'benign dictatorships,' even if it may not benefit Israel in the long run.
Understanding Anti-Israel Sentiment
The anti-Israel sentiment in the Arab world is fueled by the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and geopolitical factors. While classical anti-Semitism plays a role, the primary source of Arab animosity towards Israel stems from the unresolved political conflict. The podcast suggests that if a peace agreement and two-state solution were achieved, it could potentially reduce the intensity of anti-Israel sentiment among Arabs.
My guest today is Shadi Hamid. Shadi is a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution and a contributing writer at The Atlantic. He was named one of the world's top 50 thinkers in 2019 by Prospect Magazine. Shadi is also the author of three books, Temptations of Power,Islamic Exceptionalism, and The Problem of Democracy, which will be the primary subject of this conversation.
Shadi and I talk about the difference between liberal democracy and democracy, full stop. We discuss Shadi's concept of democratic minimalism, which is the idea that we should promote democracy in the Middle East even when it leads to illiberal outcomes. We discuss the state of public opinion in Arab countries. We talk about the difference between Islamist and secular parties. We talk about the Israel-Palestine conflict and how it might be affected by the prospect of more democracy in the Middle East. We discuss the lessons learned from the Arab Spring. We talk about the new popularity of isolationist foreign policy in America. We also go on to talk about the so-called "Benign Dictatorships" and much more.
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