Jacqueline Rose in conversation with Helen Charman: Feminist critic and writer Jacqueline Rose, author most recently of The Plague: Living Death in Our Times, published by Fitzcarraldo in 2023, speaks to critic and academic Helen Charman, author of Mother State: A Political History of Motherhood, publishing in August 2024. The conversation touches on South Africa's case against Israel in the International Court of Justice, the necessity of countenancing multiple and sometimes contradictory truths at once, and motherhood as a confrontation with life’s mess and fragility. Recorded at Young Space in January 2024. Edited by Frankie Wells. Music composed by Kwes Darko.