1863: Jubilee's “Mormons vs Ex-Mormons” on Middle Ground - Ex-Mormon Cast Reacts
Feb 5, 2024
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The podcast discusses the Jubilee channel's 'Mormons vs Ex-Mormons' episode, highlighting logical fallacies and manipulative tactics used by Mormon debaters. It delves into personal wounds from damaging teachings on LGBTQ identities and gender roles within the religion. The intense debate explores if Mormons and Ex-Mormons can find common ground amidst differing beliefs.
The podcast highlighted the emotional manipulation and logical fallacies employed by Mormon debaters during the Middle Ground episode.
Ex-Mormons expressed concerns over the damaging teachings on LGBTQ identities and traditional gender roles in Mormonism.
Women in the church face inequality in roles and responsibilities compared to men, revealing existing gender disparities within Mormonism.
The evolving understanding and interpretation of past doctrines, such as teachings on race, prompt discussions on the reliability of prophetic guidance.
Debates on whether church doctrine can change emphasize the challenge of reconciling eternal principles with societal progression over time.
Open dialogue and empathy are championed as essential for respectful discussions on Mormonism and ex-Mormonism, fostering understanding among differing views.
Deep dives
The podcast episode explores the Mormons versus ex-Mormons debate
The episode features a panel discussion between four ex-Mormons and four Mormons.
The panel discusses whether Mormonism is considered a cult
The ex-Mormons argue that certain cult-like characteristics, such as information control and emotional manipulation, can be observed in Mormonism.
The treatment of LGBTQ+ individuals in the church is a major topic
The ex-Mormons express their concerns about the church's stance on homosexuality and the exclusion of LGBTQ+ individuals from certain privileges, like temple attendance.
A heated exchange arises when discussing the concept of trials
The ex-Mormons challenge the notion that being gay is a trial and compare it to the challenges faced by cancer sufferers, sparking a debate about the harm caused by the church's teachings.
The Unequal Treatment of Men and Women in the Church
Women in the church are not treated equally, as they are often limited to certain roles and responsibilities. Men hold positions of power and authority over both men and women. The Relief Society presidency, while considered powerful, has limited influence and is segregated from general church leadership. The absence of discussion and recognition of Heavenly Mother further highlights the inequality. Women want to be seen as equal in all aspects of the church, beyond teaching and nurturing roles.
The Need for Change in Church Doctrine
Church doctrine has changed throughout history, reflected in various shifts such as the removal of certain practices and teachings. Examples include the removal of the blood atonement oath in the temple ceremony, the lifting of the priesthood ban on black members, and the distancing from polygamy. Critics argue that the doctrine has often been used to justify harmful policies or teachings, such as racism and sexism. Some view the ability to adapt and receive new revelations from prophets as a positive aspect of the church.
Challenges in Defending Controversial Past Doctrine
Defending controversial past doctrines, such as teachings on race and the curse of Cain, can be challenging. Some argue that interpretations of these doctrines as idioms or symbolic representations ignore the explicit racist language and implications. The evolving understanding and interpretation of scripture, particularly in connection to historical context, is seen as a way to reconcile conflicting narratives. The notion of prophets speaking as men versus speaking for God raises questions about the reliability of their guidance and the need for personal revelation to confirm and interpret their teachings.
The Debate on Changing Doctrine
The debate on whether church doctrine can change revolves around the concept of eternal principles versus their application over time. While some argue for the preservation of unchanging eternal truths, others maintain that the church should adapt to societal changes and progress. The examples of past changes in church teachings, such as those related to slavery, polygamy, and temple practices, are cited as evidence that doctrine can and has changed. The question of whether change should be driven by prophetic revelation or societal pressures remains a point of contention.
The Importance of Nuanced Conversation and Listening
The episode highlighted the significance of having open dialogue and listening to different perspectives. It emphasized the value of understanding and empathy across contrasting views and experiences. The participants recognized the importance of respecting diverse opinions while discussing sensitive topics related to Mormonism and ex-Mormonism.
Unveiling Misunderstandings and Misrepresentations
The participants addressed misconceptions surrounding Mormonism and ex-Mormonism, challenging stereotypes and shedding light on their personal experiences. They highlighted the complexities and nuances within these communities, emphasizing that individuals should not be placed in rigid categories based on their beliefs or experiences.
Exploring Personal Journeys and Authenticity
The podcast delved into the personal journeys and stories of the participants, focusing on the impact that their experiences with Mormonism and ex-Mormonism had on their lives. Each participant shared their perspective authentically, expressing their emotions, struggles, and moments of growth, ultimately fostering a sense of understanding and connection among the panelists.
Recognizing both the positive and negative aspects
The conversation acknowledged that both the Mormon Church and ex-Mormonism have positive and negative aspects. The participants discussed the positive experiences they had within the Mormon Church, while also addressing issues such as LGBTQ rights, policy changes, and the impact of Mormonism on mental health. They emphasized the importance of compassion and understanding when discussing these complex topics.
Join John Dehlin, Jillian Orr, Liz and Dillan for clips and behind-the-scenes commentary on the Jubilee channel’s “Mormons vs Ex-Mormons” episode. We think you’ll get fired up with us as we highlight the most infuriating logical fallacies and manipulative tactics employed by the Mormon debaters, as well as the more poignant, genuine moments from each side.
Beyond the debate recap, the conversation explores profoundly personal wounds still felt from the religion’s damaging teachings on LGBTQ identities and traditional gender roles. Jillian even courageously opens up about her inability to discuss her religious views with family members still in the church.
