creating a map through the hell of depression toward a radical elsewhere
Oct 17, 2023
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Join meme aficionado Sarah Mergen as she discusses depression as an altered state of consciousness, the link between depression and intuition, the misuse of the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator (MBTI), and the question of living in a simulation.
Depression is an altered state of consciousness with a fundamentally altered perception of the world.
Supporting individuals facing depression involves providing a consistent presence and understanding their altered perception of possibilities.
MBTI, while valuable, does not fully align with Carl Jung's theories on personality types.
Depression is a failure of adaptation and arises from a lack of alignment between personal values and societal expectations.
Embracing complexity and accepting the ineffable aspects of life are crucial for understanding mental health.
Deep dives
Depression as an altered state of consciousness
Depression can be seen as an altered state of consciousness where the perception of the world is fundamentally altered. The depressed individual may feel cut off from the world or see it as gray and inaccessible. It is an experience that is hard to put into words, as it is not logical or rational. Understanding depression as a failure of adaptation and a lack of perception of possibility can shed light on the challenging experience. Sitting with the darkness and exploring the images that arise can be a transformative process.
Support and understanding for those experiencing depression
Individuals facing depression often feel a lack of connection to others. The most supportive thing someone can do is to provide a consistent presence and invite the individual to engage with the external world. Being understanding and not pushing the depressed person to change can be helpful. Recognizing depression as an altered state of consciousness and understanding the altered perception of possibilities can foster compassion and provide a foundation for support.
MBTI and Carl Jung's theories
MBTI, the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator, is based on Carl Jung's theory of psychological types. However, MBTI has taken Jung's original concepts and presented them in a more static and boxed-in fashion. Jung believed that personality types were not fixed, but rather individuals could grow, change, and adapt throughout their lives. While MBTI can still be valuable, it is important to recognize that it does not fully align with Jung's theories. Understanding the original concepts behind introversion, extroversion, the different functions, and the dynamic interplay between self and the world provides a deeper understanding of personality.
The importance of adaptation and courage
Jung viewed depression as a failure of adaptation, where individuals struggle to find their place in the world. Depression often arises due to attachment to values that no longer bring self-esteem or a lack of alignment between someone's true values and societal expectations. Finding the courage to adapt and change value hierarchies can be transformative in navigating depression. Understanding the interplay between the self and the world, and recognizing the irrationality and altered perception that come with depression, can offer insights into the journey of healing and transformation.
The Importance of Embracing Nuance and Complexity
In this podcast episode, the speakers discuss the tendency in contemporary society to oversimplify and seek one-size-fits-all solutions. They express concern about the loss of nuance and the preference for basic, step-by-step approaches. They highlight the significance of embracing complexity and recognizing the ineffable aspects of life that cannot be easily captured in language. The episode explores how mental health disorders are often ineffable experiences, challenging to measure and articulate. The speakers emphasize the importance of sitting with and understanding one's own experiences, rather than solely relying on labels or predetermined solutions.
The Metaphysics of Reality and the Limitations of Language
The podcast delves into the area of metaphysics and the evolving views of reality influenced by language and provability. They discuss how contemporary culture aligns itself with what can be put into language, disregarding the ineffable aspects of life. The speakers suggest that this perspective limits our understanding of mental health, as many experiences defy verbal descriptions and measurements. They argue that accepting the existence of mysteries and embracing a reality beyond what can be proven allows for a deeper understanding of ourselves and the world around us.
Exploring the Self and the Fear of Not Knowing
The episode delves into the concept of the self and the fear associated with not having definite answers or labels. The speakers highlight the discomfort people often have with embracing uncertainty and the unknown. They emphasize the importance of being comfortable with not having all the answers and finding wisdom in seeking one's own path. The podcast guests share personal experiences and discuss the need to let go of ego and detach from rigid identities in order to expand one's consciousness and experience true growth.
Personal experience with UFO phenomenon
The podcast episode explores the personal experience of the host and her partner with UFO phenomena. They recount their visit to a family who has experienced high strangeness and discuss their anticipation, fears, and the incredible sightings they witnessed, including orbs of light appearing above trees.
Psychological impact of UFO experiences
The episode delves into the psychological impact of UFO experiences, exploring the themes of scapegoating, toxic shame, and abuse. The host highlights the shunning and harassment faced by individuals who have encountered UFO phenomena and emphasizes the need to examine the psychological aspect of these encounters amidst the shifting paradigms and emerging collective consciousness.
What if depression is not simply a “chemical imbalance” but an altered state of consciousness—a profound journey into the depths of our psyche? In this episode, we look at depression through the nuanced perspective of depth psychology, MBTI personality types, and the sheer mystery of consciousness itself. Joining me is Sarah Mergen, the creator @CarlJungMemes on Instagram. Sarah’s journey started in 2021 with a deeply personal exploration of depression, which she shared with her audience in a guide she called a "personal mythology of depression." Today, she continues that journey in her podcast series, Katabasis/Anabasis, where she delves into the intricate dance between darkness and self-discovery. We’ll discuss the surprising links between depression, intuition, and altered consciousness, as well as the way our personality types influence how we experience and understand these states. With depth psychology as our framework, Sarah and I examine what it means to navigate the darker facets of human experience, and why some of the most persistent questions about reality and selfhood often have no easy answers.
Topics Covered:
Is there a connection between depression and intuition? Exploring how some intuitive types may experience depression differently.
Depression as an altered state: Could depression be a unique state of consciousness that pulls us into deeper self-reflection?
Psychedelics and mental health: When using substances like LSD, can we risk experiencing what feels like a mental break if we’re not ready to integrate what comes up?
Dissociative states and memory gaps: The strange reality of experiencing memory loss and dissociation during severe depressive episodes.
The MBTI and Jung’s psychological types: Clarifying the distinctions between the MBTI framework and Jung’s original four psychological types.
Introversion and extraversion: How Jung’s view of these traits differs from popularized interpretations in the MBTI.
Are we living in a simulation? Exploring simulation theory beyond rational thought and as a metaphor for human consciousness.
Labyrinths as life metaphors: Using the ancient symbol of the labyrinth to help guide us through cycles of depression, healing, and growth.
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