You can’t doubt the enthusiasm of Elon Musk’s Department of Government Efficiency. You can question the legality of some of their early moves.

Guest: Makena Kelly, senior writer at WIRED.

Want more What Next TBD? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen.

Podcast production by Evan Campbell and Patrick Fort.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What Next TBD | Is Elon Musk Unstoppable?