Back in 2019, Tim Nash and David Blower sat down with Brian Zahnd to explore the toxic entanglement between Church and Empire, and the resulting religion Zahnd calls "Americanism." From rethinking how we read Scripture to the deeply political implications of the cross, Zahnd offers a vision of living as citizens of God’s kindom amidst worldly empires. With Donald Trump, whom Zahnd identified as emblematic of "Americanism," once again elected President, we felt this conversation deserved to be revisited.

Following the interview, a 2024 Tim Nash and Nick Thorley share their thoughts and feelings about the re-election of Trump, and where they are seeing signs of hope.

Interview starts at 10m 15s

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