Bernardo Kastrup began as an accomplished computer engineer and AI developer. Today he is one of the most influential thinkers in the intersection between spirituality and science.

This episode is probably the most philosophically dense and intense so far. Kastrup covers so much ground it is impossible to do it justice in this brief description. Just dive in and listen. And stop once in a while to reflect.

Having said that, here are some highlights:

• On metaphysical idealism, which entails that the world is essentially mental:

”Just like your thoughts are mental, the physical world at large is made of mental processes, which present themselves on a screen of perception.”

”Everything is in consciousness. But that doesn't mean that everything is conscious.”

• On how human-like an intelligent artificial neural network can become:

”We have no reason whatsoever to believe that a silicon computer can ever have a private conscious inner life in the way that you and I have.”

• On the immense problems with materialism:

”You can not pull the qualities out of the quantities. You have to have only one thing. The quantities are descriptions of the qualities, not the generator of the qualities. Mass, spin, charge, momentum, amplitude etc are descriptions of mental processes.”

”Materialists are trying to pull the territory out of the map.”

• The whirlpool metaphor for human life (we are ”whirlpools” in an all-encompassing stream of water):

”We are localized aspects of consciousness within the greater ’mind-at-large’. A whirlpool is undoubtedly a thing of its own, but it is also obvious that it does not consist of anything other than water. This is why I can't read your thoughts and I don't know what's happening on the other side of the world right now despite that everything is in one universal mind.”

• The dashboard metaphor for the world:

”We are like pilots flying only by reading the instruments on the dashboard. And that is sufficient to fly safely. The dashboard is excellent at conveying accurate information about the world. But it isn't the world.”

”The pilot never makes the mistake of thinking that the dashboard is the world. But we make that mistake. We say the physical is the world, not a representation thereof. And that is incredibly naive.”

”So, what is the nature of the thing being measured? I think it's obvious: transpersonal mentation. Mental activity is the only thing we know. Everything else is a theory. An abstraction.”

”The brain doesn't have a standalone existence. It is a representation on the dashboard. Your brain firing up neurons is what your thoughts look like when observed from the outside.”

• On why idealism gives meaning to life by postulating a continuation of consciousness beyond the physical death:

”Nothing is banal, nothing is temporary. Your experiences are not for nothing. They have contributed to the fabric of nature.”

”The intuition that we are rooted in nature is what is reflected in the golden thread that runs through thousands of years of mystical traditions.”

• On evolution:

”The evidence for natural selection is overwhelming. But the question is: is it the only mechanism necessary for evolution? To say that the genetic mutations are random is a statement of faith. The mutations might have a preferential direction. And a recent study shows that that is exactly what happens in nature. Nature is not shooting blindly.”

Bernardo’s website

His books

The Essentia foundation

GGACP Classic: Brian Holland and Eddie Holland