Glenn Diesen - Greater Eurasia Podcast Ray McGovern: End of NATO and the EU - Whom the Gods Would Destroy, They First Make Mad
Dec 17, 2025
Ray McGovern, a former CIA analyst with 27 years of experience, delves into the impending collapse of NATO and the EU. He critiques the new U.S. national security strategy and discusses the shift in priorities affecting U.S.-Russia relations. McGovern highlights the consequences of NATO expansion and argues that it pushed Russia closer to China. He also explores the dynamics of recent Berlin talks and predicts that NATO may fracture, necessitating new European security guarantees. His insights on Ukraine's military logistics and informal diplomacy add depth to the conversation.
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U.S. Strategy Pivoted Away From Europe
- The new U.S. national security strategy marks a fundamental pivot from Europe toward the Western Hemisphere and Asia.
- Ray McGovern argues this reflects recognition that power is shifting from West to East and that Russia now must be treated as part of that shift.
Wolfowitz Told Clark The U.S. Was Unstoppable
- McGovern recounts Paul Wolfowitz telling Wesley Clark the key lesson of 1991 was that the U.S. could act without Russian constraint.
- He uses this story to show how U.S. strategy explicitly aimed to preserve hegemonic primacy after the Gulf War.
1991 Doctrine Meets 2022 Reality
- McGovern traces U.S. grand strategy from the post–1991 Wolfowitz doctrine of preserving unipolar primacy to a present where Russia can block U.S. aims.
- He sees Russia's 2022 actions as a turning point that ended the assumption of uncontested U.S. dominance.