This cross-post episode from the Future of Life Institute podcast features Luke Drago, co-author of The Intelligence Curse and co-founder of Workshop Labs, in conversation with Gus Docker. PSA for AI builders: Interested in alignment, governance, or AI safety? Learn more about the MATS Summer 2026 Fellowship and submit your name to be notified when applications open: https://matsprogram.org/s26-tcr. They explore whether it’s wise to build AI systems that directly compete with and potentially replace humans as economic actors, and how this could create an “Intelligence Curse” where those who control AI gain extreme power. Luke outlines societal strategies like open-source AI, company-level design principles that keep users in control of their data, and personal tactics such as N-of-1 careers and pursuing moonshot projects early.

Sponsors:

MATS:

MATS is a fully funded 12-week research program pairing rising talent with top mentors in AI alignment, interpretability, security, and governance. Apply for the next cohort at https://matsprogram.org/s26-tcr

Tasklet:

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Agents of Scale:

Agents of Scale is a podcast from Zapier CEO Wade Foster, featuring conversations with C-suite leaders who are leading AI transformation. Subscribe to the show wherever you get your podcasts

Shopify:

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CHAPTERS:

(00:00) About the Episode

(03:07) Defining The Intelligence Curse

(09:34) Pyramid Replacement And Work (Part 1)

(15:55) Sponsors: MATS | Tasklet

(18:55) Pyramid Replacement And Work (Part 2)

(25:29) Local Knowledge, Data Control

(33:58) Dystopian Intelligence Curse Future (Part 1)

(34:04) Sponsors: Agents of Scale | Shopify

(36:52) Dystopian Intelligence Curse Future (Part 2)

(48:07) Open, Safe AI Futures

(01:02:47) Loyal Agents Versus Ads

CEO Spotlight: Jeff Kim of Yanolja Cloud