Ep 270 - Class, Capitalism, and MMT with Bill Mitchell
Mar 30, 2024
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Economist Bill Mitchell discusses the flaws in capitalism, class conflict, and the need for systemic change. He criticizes the ruling elites, advocates for degrowth over green growth, and emphasizes the importance of power dynamics. Mitchell argues that progressives need to work towards changing the system, not just reforming it.
Understanding class conflict is crucial in analyzing economic challenges and power structures.
MMT provides insights into monetary operations but lacks a theory of power for systemic change.
Critique of the postwar era's social democratic politics and the dangerous influence of institutions like the World Bank and IMF.
Advocacy for degrowth over green growth and the necessity of systemic change rather than reform within capitalism.
Deep dives
Critique of Gradualism and Incrementalism in the Economic System
The podcast episode delves into the critique of gradualism and incrementalism in handling economic challenges, comparing it to the bold approach advocated by figures like Martin Luther King. The discussion emphasizes the importance of understanding class conflict in economic analysis, highlighting the impact of class dynamics on wealth distribution and societal power structures.
Marxist Perspective on Capitalism and Work
The podcast explores the Marxist perspective on capitalism's foundation in class conflict, illustrating how capitalism created an illusion of freedom for workers. The episode discusses the essence of workers' lack of freedom not to work, contrasting it with the freedom of capital owners to prosper without labor. It emphasizes the inherent conflict between workers seeking more from the system and capital owners aiming to extract more from labor.
MMT Lens in Understanding Fiat Monetary Systems
The episode delves into the Modern Monetary Theory (MMT) lens as a tool for comprehending fiat monetary systems, highlighting the significance of government currency issuing capacity and its role in shaping economic decisions. The discussion underscores the need to augment MMT understanding with insights into ownership of capital and its influence on economic behavior, emphasizing the ideological layer required for grasping systemic change.
Challenges in Addressing Economic Disparities
The podcast presents the challenges in addressing economic disparities since the 1970s, tracing the widening gap between growth, real wages, and productivity due to legislative changes favoring profits over worker benefits. The episode critiques the traditional post-Keynesian approach for overlooking the role of class conflict in economic trajectories, portraying the lack of resolve in governmental actions against capital demands.
Proposals for Systemic Change and Resistance
In the episode, proposals for systemic change are explored, advocating for a fundamental shift in the system of production and ownership to address societal challenges effectively. The podcast underscores the necessity for a broader structure of resistance and challenge to combat existing power dynamics, emphasizing the potential for a new monetary system within a changing era of civilization.
Future Projects and Insights by Bill Mitchell
The episode concludes with a glimpse into future projects by Bill Mitchell, including upcoming books and collaborations. Mitchell's focus on advancing broader economic perspectives rooted in Marxist tradition and challenging conventional economic paradigms is highlighted, showcasing his dedication to promoting systemic changes and understanding the intricacies of class conflict in modern economics.
Acknowledgment of Collaborators and Future Engagements
The podcast episode acknowledges collaborative work with Dr. Louisa Connors and forthcoming projects such as a second edition of an MMT textbook. Mitchell's commitment to furthering economic research and engaging in progressive dialogues aimed at reshaping economic viewpoints and advocating for systemic transformation is emphasized, reflecting a dedication to raising awareness on critical economic issues.
A hundred years ago, John Maynard Keynes predicted we would see a massive expansion of growth and productivity under capitalism. Bingo. He got that right. He said this amazing efficiency would result in a shorter work week with far more leisure time for everyone. Oops. Not so much. The structure of capital ownership will never permit it.
Bill Mitchell’s blog post, Keynes Was Wrong Because He Failed to Consider Class Conflict, was the inspiration for this episode. Bill talks with Steve about many of the truths about capitalism economists and historians get wrong, beginning with the idea that capitalism freed workers from the bonds of feudalism.
Bill covers the social democratic politics of the postwar era and how the ruling elites then ensured that government would only serve as their agent. He and Steve take a critical look at the dangerous power of institutions like the World Bank and IMF. Bill explains why he supports degrowth instead of “green growth.”
Bill believes progressives shouldn’t be working to reform the system; they must work to change it. Coming from the Marxian tradition, he says MMT is only part of the story.
“Yes, it provides a first class lens into monetary operations but it doesn't have a theory of power. And you have to add that ideological layer for it to be, in my view, a purposeful framework for advancing systemic change. Just to have an MMT understanding provides you with no additional tools to work out systemic change.”
Bill Mitchell is a Professor in Economics and Director of the Centre of Full Employment and Equity (CofFEE), at the University of Newcastle, NSW, Australia. He is also a professional musician and plays guitar with the Melbourne Reggae-Dub band – Pressure Drop. Follow his work on https://billmitchell.org/blog/
@billy_blog on Twitter
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