Jack Weatherford | How Genghis Khan's Grandson (Kublai Khan) Further Expanded The Mongol Empire

Dec 1, 2024

Jack Weatherford, an acclaimed author specializing in Mongolian history, discusses Kublai Khan's pivotal role in expanding the Mongol Empire. He highlights Kublai’s unique leadership style, favoring diplomacy over brute force. The conversation explores the often-misunderstood legacy of the Mongols, contrasting their violent reputation with their significant civilizational contributions. Weatherford also delves into innovations that shaped history, the importance of individual narratives, and the profound East-West relations catalyzed by figures like Marco Polo.

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ANECDOTE

A Sentimental Reunion

Ryan invited Jack Weatherford onto his podcast for a second time, a significant moment for him.
Four years prior, Ryan, inspired by Weatherford's book, reached out for an interview despite expecting rejection.

INSIGHT

Shifting Focus to Cambodia

Jack Weatherford, after writing four books on Mongolia, shifts his focus to Cambodia.
He aims to write a comprehensive history beyond the Killing Fields, focusing on a Buddhist king who established universal healthcare.

INSIGHT

Reframing Mongol History

Weatherford challenges the prevailing narrative of Mongols as uncivilized marauders.
He acknowledges their brutality while highlighting the positive aspects of their rule and the historical bias against nomadic people.

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Jack Weatherford returns to the pod which marks a pretty sentimental moment for me (links are at the bottom of this email, before the transcript snippet).

Jack’s first appearance was #19 of the podcast. To this day, it’s my favourite podcast I’ve ever recorded. These are links to the first appearance.

Jack Weatherford #19 on Spotify

Jack Weatherford #19 on Apple

Jack Weatherford #19 on Youtube

But four years ago, when I had just started this podcast, I had written to Jack telling how I was listening to the final chapters of his book while walking across sand dunes in Merghouza, (a desolate slice of the Sahara in south west Morocco). The chapter was making the case for how the plagues viral spread was downstream of the Mongols connectivity of the modern world.

I wrote that I was keen to interview him for this podcast that I had just started.

There were lots of rejection for a while in the first few years and I had no expectations he would even get back to me. But to my surprise he did, and it was an emphatic yes.

We corresponded a bit over email, recorded a 4 hour discussion, of which 3 where published And it was as much a dedication to Mongolia as it was Genghis Khan and the Mongols.

And I’ve waited in the years since to see him appear on Rogan, Fridman, Tim Ferriss or even a Dan Carlin addendum, since these are all blokes who have openly praised and spoken about Jack’s work many times.

But so far, nothing, although it looks like one of them may correct this, which Jack may or may not give away at the end.

But onto this episode today.

Jack has just published his final instalment on the Mongols, his fourth book on the topic. It’s called Emperor Of The Seas and it’s about Genghis’s grandson, Kublai Khan, who expanded the Mongol territory beyond the dominion his grandfather conquered 50 years before him. Kublai folded into the Khan empire the fertile agricultural lands of south China, repurposed that fleet and the expertise along with and expanded the Khan empire beyond the oceans. Mongols sitting on horseback, atop goat skins, riding wooden ships.

Jack Weatherford #190 Of The Curious Worldview Podcast on Youtube

Emperor Of The Seas - Jack Weatherford