Einstein was called “slow” at school, J. K. Rowling collected a dozen rejections, and Walt Disney was once fired for “lacking imagination.” We love stories of perseverance—but what’s the cost of never letting go? In this conversation, psychoanalyst Adam Phillips argues that our obsession with endurance can have hidden, corrosive effects. He invites us to consider giving up not as failure, but as a creative act: a way to revise who we are, resist the tyranny of completion, and make room for lives that fit.

Adam Phillips is a leading British psychoanalyst and acclaimed essayist, celebrated for bringing psychoanalytic ideas into everyday life with clarity and wit. He is the author of more than twenty books, including On Kissing, Tickling, and Being Bored, Darwin’s Worms, Going Sane, On Balance, Attention Seeking, and On Wanting to Change. He has served as a child psychotherapist in the NHS and is the general editor of the new Penguin translations of Sigmund Freud. Health journalist Claudia Canavan hosts.

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Ep. 615 - Trump Should Have Lied