Eli Lake: Exploring the Darkest Corners of the Deep State
Aug 30, 2023
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Eli Lake, a leading national security journalist, discusses the excessive state secrecy, the concept of the 'deep state' and its actions, the FBI's approach to domestic terrorism, the controversial legacy of the Iraq war, Vivek Ramaswami's criticism of the FBI and CIA, and the decision-making process in war intervention.
The deep state in America has evolved from World War II and the Cold War, with the CIA and FBI operating beyond constitutional limits and keeping the public in the dark about their activities.
Excessive state secrecy undermines self-governance and democracy, highlighting the importance of accountability and oversight over intelligence agencies to prevent unchecked bureaucracy and abuses.
Reforms like the Church Committee and the Family Jewels have revealed past abuses, but they are limited in reconciling the tension between surveillance and democracy, particularly in the context of threat inflation and the war on terror.
Deep dives
The Roots of the Deep State
The podcast episode delves into the history and origins of the deep state in America, highlighting how it has evolved from World War II and the Cold War. It explores how the CIA and FBI have operated beyond constitutional limits, often keeping the public and even elected officials in the dark about their activities. The tension between America's role in world affairs and the secretive nature of these agencies is a central topic of discussion.
The Limits and Abuses of State Secrecy
The episode discusses the impact of excessive state secrecy on self-governance and democracy. It emphasizes the importance of accountability and meaningful oversight over intelligence agencies. While acknowledging the need for some level of secrecy in matters of national security, the episode highlights the dangers of unchecked bureaucracy protected behind a cloak of state secrecy.
Revelations and Reforms
The podcast episode explores how landmark events, such as the Church Committee and the Family Jewels, led to significant revelations about the abuses and overreach of intelligence agencies. These revelations prompted reforms like the FISA court and the establishment of oversight committees. However, it also highlights the limitations and shortcomings of these reforms, noting that they cannot fully reconcile the tension between surveillance and democracy.
Threat Inflation and Public Perception
The episode examines the issue of threat inflation, particularly in the context of the war on terror. It raises questions about the balance between security and civil liberties, with a focus on how fear and perception of threats have influenced public opinion and government actions. The discussion touches on the FBI's controversial tactics and the dangers of overreacting to perceived threats.
Unreliable Intel and Public Scrutiny in the US Intelligence Community
During the Cold War, the CIA's top bureaucrat, James Jesus Angleton, believed in conspiracy theories and was convinced that Lee Harvey Oswald was sent by the Soviet Union to assassinate JFK. This highlights the dangers of relying on individuals with extreme beliefs in positions of power. The lack of public scrutiny and institutional secrecy intensified Angleton's paranoia. Accountability and transparency are crucial in the intelligence community to prevent similar situations from arising.
The Limits of Intervention and the Importance of Congressional Involvement
The decision to intervene militarily in foreign conflicts should not be solely in the hands of the president. Congress should play a crucial role in authorizing such actions to maintain public buy-in and ensure democratic decision-making. Military interventions should also be guided by clear objectives and strategic interests. While there are instances where military action may be necessary, a thoughtful and measured approach is needed to avoid unnecessary bloodshed and to maintain long-term credibility and accountability.
My guest today is Eli Lake, a repeat guest who for almost 30 years has been one of the country's leading national security journalists, working as a columnist for and contributor to publications such as Bloomberg Opinion, The Daily Beast, The New Republic, The New York Sun, and Commentary. His 2010 article for Reason, "The 9/14 Presidency," strongly argued for time-limiting all authorizations of the use of military force, especially those involving amorphous struggles such as the global war on terror.
In recent episodes of his podcast, The Re-Education, Lake has conducted deep dives into the dark histories of the National Security Agency, the CIA, and the FBI and how they routinely disregard constitutional limits on their activities. At a recent event in New York City, I talked with him about the fundamental tension between America playing an outsized role in world affairs and having secretive agencies that often keep Congress and voters in the dark about their operations. Can democracy and self-governance survive in such an environment?
Why We Can't Have Nice Things. A six-part Reason podcast series about the frustrating and foolish aspects of American trade policy that make everyday items more expensive. From last year's sudden shortages of baby formula to the Jones Act and President Lyndon Johnson's infamous "chicken war," host Eric Boehm sits down with industry experts and libertarian policy wonks to explore how these counterproductive rules got made—and explains why they can be so difficult to undo.