As we begin the new year, we turn to writer George Saunders. He first joined us upon the release of his latest book, A Swim in a Pond in the Rain. He’s recently launched a new newsletter called "Story Club", available on Substack.

This week we’re revisiting our talk with Saunders, discussing the power of Chekhov and Tobias Wolff (8:52), regarding literature as a “fondness for life” (12:30), his summer with Steinbeck (15:00), deconstructing the (male) mythology of Hemingway (26:45), and how starting a young family changed his course (35:00).

On the back-half, we talk craft and process (39:00), his conversations with the late David Foster Wallace (42:15), and his aim to entertain any kind of reader (44:39). To close: George reads an excerpt from his New Yorker short story, “Love Letter” (49:02).

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Previewing Penn State's Week 8 game against Illinois