This week on Sinica, I chat with veteran Wall Street Journal reporter Bob Davis, who has covered the U.S.-China relationship for decades. He recently published a new book called Broken Engagement, which consists of interviews with U.S. policymakers who were instrumental in shaping American policy toward China from the George H.W. Bush administration through the Biden administration. It's an eye-opening look at the individuals who fought for — and against — engagement with China.

2:58 – Bob’s thoughts on engagement: whether it was doomed from the start, when and why there was a shift, people’s different aspirations for it and retrospective positioning, and whether it could have a transformative effect

13:28 – The Nancy Pelosi interview: her approach, her Taiwan visit, and her critique of capitulation to business interests

17:18 – Bob’s interviews with Charlene Barshefsky, Lawrence Summers, and Bob Zoellick: the WTO accession, the China shock, Zoellick’s “responsible stakeholder” concept, and diplomacy as an ongoing process

27:24 – The Robert Gates interview: security-focused engagement, and his shift to realism

31:14 – Misreading Xi Jinping

34:42 – Bob’s interviews with Stephen Hadley and Ash Carter regarding the South China Sea

39:19 – The Matt Pottinger interview: his view on China and how COVID changed everything

46:14 – Michael Rogers’ interview: cyber espionage and cyber policy

51:25 – Robert O’Brien’s interview: the “reverse Kissinger” and Taiwan

54:14 – Bob’s interview with Kurt Campbell: his famous Foreign Affairs essay, differentiating between decoupling and de-risking, and technology export restrictions and trade deals

59:28 – The Rahm Emanuel interview: his response to wolf warrior diplomacy

1:01:57 – Bob’s takeaways: the long-term vision of engagement, introspective interviewees, and his own increased pessimism

Paying It Forward: Lingling Wei at The Wall Street Journal; Eva Dou at The Washington Post and her book House of Huawei: The Secret History of China’s Most Powerful Company; and Katrina Northrop at The Washington Post

Recommendations:

Bob: The TV series Derry Girls (2018-2022) and Curb Your Enthusiasm (2000-2024); and Margaret O’Farrell’s novels, including Hamnet and The Marriage Portrait

Kaiser: The BBC and Masterpiece series Wolf Hall: The Mirror and the Light

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