Mark Marveggio, a PhD candidate in Psychology, dives into the intricate world of incel identities. He explores how fatalism and interpersonal attraction shape these communities, examining the emotional narratives of victimhood and resentment. He distinguishes between redpilled and blackpilled ideologies, revealing the nihilism at the core of the latter. Marveggio critiques the essentialist views on attraction and discusses the psychological implications of gatekeeping. Their conversation sheds light on the complexity of belonging and the societal factors driving incels' frustrations.
Incel identities are influenced by psychological constructs like fatalism and evolutionary theory, shaping a worldview centered around perceived romantic failure.
The podcast explores how incels utilize discursive strategies of victimization to articulate their frustrations with modern social dynamics and masculinity.
Three distinct incel identities—victimized martyrs, aggrieved masculine actors, and true cells—demonstrate the internal hierarchy and coping mechanisms within their communities.
Deep dives
Constructing Incel Identities
Incel identities are shaped by a range of psychological theories, including fatalism, just world beliefs, and evolutionary psychology. These constructs lead to a worldview where incels believe they are predestined to fail in achieving romantic and sexual success due to their perceived unattractiveness. The belief in a cruel and unjust world reinforces feelings of hopelessness and resentment towards society, as incels feel victimized by an environment that values physical attractiveness above all else. This perspective frames their struggles as both personal and societal failures, fostering a sense of despair that is central to the incel identity.
Discursive Strategies among Incels
Incels employ various discursive strategies to express their emotions and narratives, often characterized by extreme case formulations and victimization. These strategies serve to solidify their identity as marginalized individuals who are unfairly treated by society and women, whom they perceive as prioritizing attractiveness. The discussions often reflect deep-seated frustrations about modern social dynamics, leading to an aggrieved masculine identity, where they see themselves as emasculated by societal changes. Understanding these discursive practices provides insight into the mechanisms by which incels communicate their experiences and frustrations, contributing to their communal identity.
Three Facets of Incel Identity
The podcast presents three identities within incel communities: victimized martyrs, aggrieved masculine actors, and true cells. Victimized martyrs see themselves as oppressed by a society that values looks; they believe their unattractiveness is a birth defect that precludes them from romantic success. Aggrieved masculine actors perceive their inability to fulfill traditional masculine roles as a form of existential crisis caused by societal change, particularly feminism. Meanwhile, true cells are those who meet stringent criteria for inceldom, often involving a sense of purity related to their lack of romantic encounters, thus reinforcing the hierarchical nature of their community.
The Role of Fatalism and Blackpilling
Incels often engage in blackpilling, a nihilistic belief that only physical appearance determines one's social fate, leading them to embrace fatalism regarding their circumstances. This worldview asserts that no amount of effort can change one's standing in society, resulting in a resignation that suppresses motivation and fosters despair. The pervasive belief that they are stuck in a static social hierarchy can also lead to hatred directed towards others, as incels see their situation as an irreversible consequence of societal structures. This cycle of fatalism and blackpilling serves to entrap individuals within a bleak outlook on life, often exacerbating feelings of isolation and anger.
Community Dynamics and Gatekeeping
Incel communities feature strong elements of gatekeeping, where members differentiate between those who are genuine incels and those who are perceived as 'fake cells.' This internal hierarchy not only creates a sense of belonging among those who identify strongly with the true cell label but also reinforces their marginalization as they exclude others. The dynamics of the community often become a coping mechanism for shared frustrations, but they may also instill a culture of exclusion and disdain towards outsiders. This gatekeeping practice reflects a need for validation and superiority within their collective identity, serving as a defense against their own insecurities.
My guest this week is Mark Marveggio (@unluckywanderer.bsky.social), a PhD candidate in Psychology at the University of Adelaide and co-lead author on a paper called Fatalism, Evolution, and Interpersonal Attractiveness: Psychological Theories and Emotions in Incels’ Constructions of Ingroup Identity and Outgroup Hate. We discuss the three major identity discourses they observed in their study, and how we see those playing out in our current social landscape, and the important difference between redpilled and blackpilled.
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This show is CAN credentialed, which means you can report instances of harassment, abuse, or other harm on their hotline at (617) 249-4255, or on their website at creatoraccountabilitynetwork.org.
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