On Point | Podcast Who are the Zizians?
Jun 30, 2025
Max Reed, a journalist and creator of the Substack newsletter Reed Max, dives deep into the chilling world of the Zizians, a cult-like group linked to violent incidents in the U.S. He unpacks their roots in the rationalist movement connected to Silicon Valley and explores their controversial beliefs. The conversation reveals how these ideologies intersect with the ethics of AI and the vulnerabilities that can draw individuals into cult dynamics. Reed also discusses the fading influence of the Zizians and the psychological complexities of belonging to such groups.
AI Snips
Chapters
Books
Transcript
Episode notes
Ziz and the Zizians' Origin
- Ziz, an Alaskan who moved to the Bay Area, became involved in AI safety and rationalist circles before splitting off and founding the Zizians group.
- The group gained attention after a protest, arrests, disappearances, and violent incidents involving members including Ziz.
From Rationalism to Extremism
- The Zizians took rationalist ideas about AI and ethics to violent extremes, justifying harm in pursuit of their moral goals.
- Ziz espoused a hierarchy of human worth linked to brain hemispheres and animal sentience, leading to extreme actions.
Rationalism's AI Fear and Influence
- The rationalist movement centers on preventing risky AI, fearing superintelligence might destroy humanity.
- Though influential in Silicon Valley, rationalism blends self-help and abstract philosophy, attracting thinkers but also fostering cult-like dynamics.
