Today I sit down with my friend Rick Kahlenberg, an expert on all things affirmative action and the author of the forthcoming book, Class Matters: The Fight to Get Beyond Race Preferences, Reduce Inequality, and Build Real Diversity at America’s Colleges. We kick off with a discussion of DEI trainings, the educational bureaucracy, and Trump’s latest executive orders. We then chat about how both sides of the political spectrum have problems with their approaches to racial diversity. Rick walks us through his 40-year journey to move Democrats towards class-based preferences in college admissions—a position that both Bill Clinton and Barack Obama once supported. Finally, we close with a preview of our upcoming co-authored report titled, “Bobby Kennedy: Liberal Patriot.”

A transcript of this podcast is available on the post page on the website.