Quality 5.0—Quantifying the "Unmeasurable" With Tom Gilb and Simon Holzapfel

BONUS: Quality 5.0—Quantifying the "Unmeasurable" With Tom Gilb and Simon Holzapfel Clarification Before Quantification

"Quantification is not the main idea. The key idea is clarification—so that the executive team understands each other."

Tom emphasizes that measurement is a means to an end. The real goal is shared understanding. But quantification is a powerful clarification tactic because it forces precision. When someone says they want a "very fast car," asking "can we define a scale of measure?" immediately surfaces the vagueness. Miles per hour? Acceleration time? Top speed? Each choice defines what you're actually optimizing for.

The Scale-Meter-Target Framework

"First, define a scale of measure. Second, define the meter—the device for measuring. Third, set numbers: where are we now, what's the minimum to survive, and what does success look like?"

Tom's framework makes the abstract concrete:

• Scale of measure: What dimension are you measuring? (e.g., time to complete task)

• Meter: How will you measure it? (e.g., user testing with stopwatch)

• Past/Status: Where are you now? (e.g., currently takes 47 seconds)

• Tolerable: What's the minimum acceptable? (e.g., must be under 30 seconds to survive)

• Target/Goal: What does success look like? (e.g., 15 seconds or less)

Many important concepts like "usability" decompose into 10+ different scales of measure—you're not looking for one magic number but a set of relevant metrics.

Trust as the Organizational Hormone

"Change moves at the speed of trust. Once there's trust, information flows. Once information flows, the system comes to life and can learn. Until there's trust, you have the Soviet problem."

Simon introduces trust as the "human growth hormone" of organizational change—it's fast, doesn't require a user's manual, and enables everything else. Low-trust environments hoard information, guaranteeing poor outcomes. The practical advice? Make your work visible to your manager, alignment-check first, do something, show results. Living the learning cycle yourself builds trust incrementally. And as Tom adds: if you deliver increased critical value every week, you will build trust.

About Tom Gilb and Simon Holzapfel

Tom Gilb, born in the US, lived in London, and then moved to Norway in 1958. An independent teacher, consultant, and writer, he has worked in software engineering, corporate top management, and large-scale systems engineering. As the saying goes, Tom was writing about Agile before Agile was named. In 1976, Tom introduced the term "evolutionary" in his book Software Metrics, advocating for development in small, measurable steps. Today, we talk about Evo, the name Tom uses to describe his approach. Tom has worked with Dr. Deming and holds a certificate personally signed by him.

You can listen to Tom Gilb's previous episodes here.

You can link with Tom Gilb on LinkedIn

Simon Holzapfel is an educator, coach, and learning innovator who helps teams work with greater clarity, speed, and purpose. He specializes in separating strategy from tactics, enabling short-cycle decision-making and higher-value workflows. Simon has spent his career coaching individuals and teams to achieve performance with deeper meaning and joy. Simon is also the author of the Equonomist newsletter on Substack.

And you can listen to Simon's previous episodes on the podcast here.

You can link with Simon Holzapfel on LinkedIn.