History of church-state separation in the US • Founders' views on religious freedom and minority protection • Inequalities in tax exemptions for religious institutions and secular nonprofits • Cultural preferences and the risk of favoring a specific religion • Influence of the Federalist Society on Supreme Court appointments • Religious freedom and discrimination cases • Defining religion and discrimination against nonbelievers • Abortion rights debate and state authority • Religious right's impact in the 1980 presidential election • Supreme Court rulings on church-state separation • Threat of a constitutional convention to freedom and separation of church and state
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Quick takeaways
The erosion of the separation of church and state and the weakening of modern secular government pose a threat to equality before the law for all, regardless of religious belief or non-belief.
The framers of the Constitution sought to create a secular government based on historical context and the need for freedom of conscience and equal rights in matters of religion.
The potential threat to non-believers' rights arises from the conservative majority in the Supreme Court, with concerns about religious exemptions influencing discrimination against LGBTQ+ individuals and denial of healthcare based on religious beliefs.
Deep dives
The Importance of Separation of Church and State
The podcast episode discusses the current erosion of the separation of church and state and the weakening of modern secular government. The guest, Eddie Tabash, a constitutional lawyer, talks about how the Supreme Court's conservative majority is threatening the separation of church and state. He emphasizes the need to protect society from becoming a theocracy by upholding equality before the law for all, regardless of religious belief or non-belief. Tabash highlights the historical context of the First Amendment's religion clauses and the framers' intentions to protect freedom of conscience and ensure equal treatment in matters of religion. He argues for the importance of government treating all points of view equally and not favoring belief over non-belief.
The Historical Context of Separation of Church and State
Tabash explains the historical context of the separation of church and state by discussing the oppressive religious practices that existed in Europe prior to the founding of the United States. He mentions the religious wars, religious persecution, and the absence of legal restrictions on government establishing theocracy. Tabash emphasizes how the framers of the Constitution were influenced by this history and sought to create a secular government where all individuals would have freedom of conscience and equal rights, regardless of their religious beliefs or non-belief. He cites the writings and views of prominent figures like Thomas Jefferson and James Madison, who advocated for religious liberty and protection against religious influence in government. Tabash argues that the establishment clause of the Constitution was intended to limit government involvement in religion, ensuring equality for all citizens in matters of faith.
The Potential Threat to Non-Believers' Rights
Tabash expresses concern about the potential threat to non-believers' rights in the face of a religious right-wing majority in the Supreme Court. He highlights remarks made by justices Clarence Thomas and Samuel Alito, suggesting a possible erosion of rights for secular individuals. Tabash mentions cases like the Masterpiece Cakeshop case and the Dobbs case, discussing the arguments surrounding religious freedom, discrimination, and reproductive rights. He raises concerns about religious exemptions that could allow businesses to discriminate against LGBTQ+ individuals or deny access to healthcare based on religious beliefs. Tabash underscores the importance of protecting the rights of non-believers and ensuring equality before the law, regardless of religious affiliation.
The Battle for Abortion Rights and the Role of the States
Tabash highlights the ongoing battle over abortion rights and the implications of the Supreme Court's decision in Dobbs v. Jackson Women's Health Organization. He criticizes the argument that abortion should be a state's rights issue, emphasizing the need for federal protection of reproductive rights. Tabash discusses the concept of viability and the absence of scientific consensus on when life begins as central to the abortion debate. He critiques the trend of allowing states to pass restrictive laws and interfering with a woman's control over her own body. Tabash raises concerns about potential repercussions for women's rights and the need to fight for the preservation of abortion rights at the federal level.
Religious Right Influence on Abortion Laws
The podcast episode discusses the influence of the religious right on abortion laws and the ongoing debate surrounding reproductive rights. The speaker highlights the argument that if a developing embryo or fetus is entirely dependent on a woman's body for survival and development, then shouldn't she have the right to determine its destiny? The historical context of religious right's involvement in politics, specifically during the 1980 presidential election, is also explored.
Supreme Court Decisions and Religious Positions
The podcast episode examines several key Supreme Court decisions and the religious positions of the sitting justices. Cases such as American Legion v. American Humanist Association, Espinoza v. Montana Department of Revenue, and Our Lady of Guadalupe School v. Morrissey-Berru demonstrate the court's lean toward religious right ideology. The speaker points out the potential implications of recent decisions on issues such as funding religious institutions, employment discrimination, and restrictions on religious gatherings during the COVID-19 pandemic. The episode also highlights the ongoing concern regarding the high number of Catholic justices on the court and their potential influence on shaping policy and constitutional interpretation.
Shermer and Tabash discuss: the history of the relationship between church and state • the founding framers of the U.S. Constitution and their arguments for separating church and state • Madison and Jefferson • how most of the 13 colonies had government-sanctioned religions and religious tests for office • the Constitutional Convention and the First Amendment • the push by some Republicans to hold a new Constitutional Convention and redesign the entire U.S. Constitution • the religious beliefs and attitudes of the current SCOTUS.
Eddie Tabash is a constitutional lawyer in Los Angeles. He graduated magna cum laude from UCLA in 1973. He graduated from Loyola Law School of Los Angeles in 1976. He is known for his expertise in demonstrating how the religion clauses of the First Amendment require the separation of church and state, which includes equality before the law for nonbelievers. He is an atheist who endeavors to secure a society in which no branch of government can treat people differently because of either accepting or rejecting any tenet of religious belief.
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