In this episode Jon O'Gorman hosts Timothy Hoyt, John Garofano, and David Stone. They talk about civil-military relations in the Vietnam conflict and why the decision was made to escalate in the war from just an advisory mission. They discuss Red team strategy and Vietnamese nationalism as a motive force. The conversation also covers the problems of wargaming to provide insights to conflicts and dealing with corrupt regimes. Lastly, they flash forward to Afghanistan and why history repeats itself with a seemingly similar conflict ending.