Counter Apologetics

CA136 Nobody Dies For A Lie

Mar 18, 2025

The discussion critiques Mel Gibson's claim that 'nobody dies for a lie,' focusing on the questionable historical evidence of the apostles' martyrdom. It explores how many martyrdom stories are embellished and often mythological. Hypothetical scenarios reveal that individuals can die for beliefs they may not truly hold. Additionally, the psychology of faith is examined, particularly how believers adapt after disillusionment, exemplified by the Millerites' response to failed prophecies. Ultimately, the complexity of human behavior challenges the straightforward notion behind martyrdom.

26:30

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Quick takeaways

The historical accuracy of the apostles' martyrdom is questionable, as accounts are often late, embellished, and based on oral tradition.

Human irrationality can lead individuals to die for beliefs they don't genuinely hold, challenging the assertion that nobody dies for a lie.

Deep dives

Martyrdom and the Apostles' Faith

The discussion centers on the claim that the apostles died for their belief in the resurrection of Jesus, highlighting that nobody dies for a lie. This point is challenged by exploring the historical context and the varying degrees of evidence regarding the martyrdom of the apostles. Some sources suggesting their martyrdom were recorded decades after the events, often influenced by oral traditions, which raises questions about their accuracy. The skepticism around the certainty of these accounts suggests that asserting the apostles knowingly died for a truth they believed in is not as straightforward as it may seem.

Intro

4min

Skepticism and Historical Records of Early Christian Martyrdom

4min

Exploring Martyrdom: Truth, Lies, and Hypothetical Scenarios

5min

Exploring the Paradox of Dying for a Lie

5min

Faith Amid Disappointment

7min

I critique Mel Gibson’s claim on the Joe Rogan Experience that “nobody dies for a lie,” which many apologists have used in the past to argue that the martyrdom of Jesus’ disciples supports the truth of the resurrection, as they wouldn’t die for something they knew to be false.

First, I challenge this by questioning the historical evidence for the apostles’ martyrdom, noting that accounts are late, based on oral traditions, and often embellished with legendary elements, such as milk flowing from Paul’s severed neck. Even if the apostles were martyred, the reasons for their martyrdom are uncertain due to the difficulty of establishing motivations and crucial details surrounding the apostles’ deaths, like whether it would have mattered if they’d recanted. I further undermine the apologist’s slogan by proposing scenarios where someone could die for a known lie, such as being falsely accused and coerced into confession under torture; and by highlighting human irrationality, like people confessing to capital crimes they didn’t commit. Finally, Matthew Hartke recounts the story of the Millerites, alerts us to the shortcomings of folk psychology, and explains how cognitive dissonance could explain Christian origins.

Ultimately, “nobody dies for a lie” fails under scrutiny, as history and human behavior are far more complex than the claim allows.

Linktree

Matthew Hartke – How Cognitive Dissonance Explains Christianity

Shameless Popery – The Hidden Danger of Mel Gibson

Bart Ehrman – Were the disciples martyred for their belief in the resurrection?

Joshua Schachterle – How did the apostles die?