This podcast is about leadership and management - how we can improve the quality of leadership, via the ability to unlearn and relearn. Our guest Karren Ferris joins us again on the podcast to discuss the 'Remarkable' qualities required. The challenge is avoiding the temptation to go back to pre-2020 management and really move forward as leaders. This can be scary and takes humility and courage to open up to, plus a balanced view of new monitoring technology and workplace models. ‘People get promoted to managers in their 20s/30s but don’t get management training until their 40s..’! Management by mushrooms is also mentioned... (you have to listen to find out..)